Atheist and agnostic are two different things. | 57 comments (57 topical, 0 hidden)
the words (none / 0)
"Agnostic atheist" sounds really dumb to me.  If you believe there is no God (therefore atheist) yet you admit that you cannot "know" this (agnostic) then you are just agnostic and you can drop atheist.

David

by yturks on 12/22/2008 10:04:00 PM EST

The semantics (none / 0)
get to be pretty annoying.

That's why I go with "non-theist", but I'm sure someone would disagree with that as well.

I avoid the phrase "atheist" because far too many otherwise reasonable people have completely unreasonable and ridiculous notions about what that means.

by Tom Hanc on 12/22/2008 10:08:52 PM EST

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non-theist (none / 0)
The Secular Coalition of America uses non-theist as a catchall because I believe it was determined that it wasn't so repellent to the general public. It makes sense for them, they're an advocacy group. I use "atheist" because I don't want to appear like I'm running from the term and I stand in solidarity with those that dare to use it.

by mr science on 12/22/2008 10:30:16 PM EST

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etymology (none / 0)
I think he's trying to point out that the two roots "theist" and "gnostic" look at two different phenomena.

"theist" looks at whether or not a god exists.

"gnostic" looks at whether or not it's possible to know (popular usage focuses on whether or not it's possible to know that god, or any sort of divine, fundamental energy/being/system ex ists).

If you're "gnostic," you believe that it is possible to know the ultimate truth underlying the universe.

If you're "agnostic," you believe that it is not possible to know the ultimate truth underlying the universe.  You don't believe it's possible to know if gods exist or not, if some sort of invisible spiritual forces exist or not, etc. etc.

Theistic vs. atheistic is a narrower judgment: do you believe in the existence of a _being_ or beings that is/are supremely powerful in our universe, or don't you?

If you're "theistic" you do, and if you're "atheistic" you don't.  If you're "agnostic" that absolves you from having to answer the question of theistic vs. atheistic, because you don't believe it's possible to know (from the greek root gnostos - to know).

by marlonm on 12/22/2008 10:27:22 PM EST

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re: dave (none / 0)
I agree with you that the term "agnostic atheist" is silly and half-assed.

Both atheism and theism (the belief in god) are strictly gnostic arguments - you make them under the logical assumption, the axiom, that it is possible to know the fundamental truth of the universe.  Without this assumption, any argument an "agnostic atheist" makes about God or Gods is necessarily half-assed, because your assumption (knowledge is not possible) undercuts your argument (there is no God).

by marlonm on 12/22/2008 10:44:12 PM EST

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Atheist and agnostic are two different things. | 57 comments (57 topical, 0 hidden)