To Kentx, and others:

Respectfully, you didn't address any of the valid points that NoBias guy made, but I'd like to make an observation about your own argument.

What stands out about your argument is the certainty of your statements, the finality of your terms: subatomic quantum of energy, infinite mass, and such. This process you describe (a massive one at that!) is not something we Earthlings fully understand. In fact it's only been the kind of thing we can reasonably speculate about for the last... what? 150 years? Forgive my ignorance, I know not when the telescope was invented.

See, here's the thing: Science is about questions. Religion is about answers.

Let me rephrase. Not having an answer to a question is perfectly acceptable in this day and age, or it should be. This is why 85% (or more. I think it's more) of the members of the national academy of sciences are athiests.

"I don't know." is just fine. It really is.

Say it out loud. Go ahead. I DON'T KNOW. Feels weird, right? Not to us athiests/agnostics it doesn't. It just feels like the natural state of things. Sure, there are knowns but the unknowns always outweigh the knowns. (Donald Rumsfeld must be spinning in his grave.)

One must not walk far into the thorn brush that is semantics to get pierced and stabbed by prefixes a- or ag-, caught up on brambles of for or against, possible or not, but the crux of it all comes down to how comfortable a person is with not having an answer to a question. Us, me, us athe-nostics (my term), we don't need answers.

We want to die old, happy and quickly.

 

PS, I know Rumsfeld isn't dead. I just assume he sleeps in a grave.  

 

by Badass4Peace on 12/23/2008 02:24:35 AM EST

KenTX's argument comes from ignorance. It's commonly called the "God of the gaps" argument. Find a gap in knowledge and say "ha! see, science can't answer everything" and default to God as the explanation without offering any evidence to back the conclusion.

Knowledge and belief are two separate things and shouldn't be confused or conflated, that's the point of the diary. Pardon my semantics.

by mr science on 12/23/2008 03:24:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
What is laughable is the fact that you e dont know  the difference between belief and knowledge.

If you cant distinguish the two

you need to move along


by Chinese Democracy on 12/23/2008 11:12:13 AM EST

[ Parent ]
It's not philosophy, it's logic. Look into it.

by mr science on 12/23/2008 12:05:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
highest science degree? anyone?? a doctorate of philosophy? Because philosophy is the determination of truths that follow from a logical premise. Philosophy is the science of argument, and logic was born from it.

by Tin Hat Mafia on 12/23/2008 08:08:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Your last sentence seems backwards. Shouldn't it read, "Logic is the science of argument and philosophy was born from it."?

by mr science on 12/23/2008 08:59:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Trust me on that one dude.

by z1p101 on 12/25/2008 04:22:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]

kind of deja vu with the Big Russ comment.

Not that you didn't stir up some wishful thinking though. 

by rolodex on 12/24/2008 12:41:42 AM EST

[ Parent ]

There is a distinction between the classic "Santa Claus in a bathrobe god" that Christians worship and a vast, complex "infinite" force that somehow controls the Universe. Thank you for making that clear

No one here would disagree that the forces underlying the universe are vast and complex, and of course there are mysteries and questions that will never be answered, mainly because of perceptual limitations rather than an inability to understand complicated concepts, although it's important to understand that no matter how much understanding we achieve there will always be more questions.

The point of argument is whether there is intention or purpose driving that "infinite" force you speak of. I say there isn't. You say there is. Pass the beer nuts.

The most interesting thing I've ever heard about science and religion came from a catholic priest during an interview on Fresh Air with Terry Gross. I don't remember his name but he was head of the Vatican's astronomy department. Paraphrasing: "Every time we learn something new about the Universe we have to adjust our definition of God."  To me, that sums it all up.

by Badass4Peace on 12/24/2008 09:51:27 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Great quote at the end too.

by Tom Hanc on 12/24/2008 12:26:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]