I didn't offer any statements to agree or disagree with. Here's the chronology.

Ken points out that quotas are bad.

I presented a quote from Obama in which he states that quotas are bad and AA needs reformation.

In response, Ken stipulates that the problem with AA is that Obama's children could be favored in admissions at oregon state over an asian dude with higher grades, because they have both the advantages of sick wealth and the racial quota.

This isn't an appropriate response for 2 reasons: fundamentally it appears that Obama and Ken are in some agreement, but Ken doesn't want that to hang out there too long so he digs up an extreme example from the current situation which is irrelevant to the discussion of outcomes for policies that have yet to be enacted. Second, the example he cites is an extreme one. It is plausible but rare, and it should be noted that extreme wealth probably trumps all other advantages regardless of skin color. I think there's a discussion to be had here, but as I said before, ken didn't help his cause with this example. I ain't buyin' it.

There's a more fundamental issue, that of social engineering. That's the debate Ken wants to have. If we quibble about reforming AA Ken has already lost.

by hazmat on 12/04/2008 12:11:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Ken's position is clear--its just surprisingly liberal.

by hazmat on 12/04/2008 12:36:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]

do you not understand that he believes that the current state of affairs still need affirmative action, and did you just wipe your memory, or did you not hear his response about his daughter vs. a white young man.  It is the exact point you tried to make at the beginning of this conversation, and he responded directly to it, but somehow you missed it.  Let me explain the "nuance" portion.  Currently, there ARE social disparities in many parts of the educational system in America.  Some of these disparities HAPPEN to fall along racial lines because of other socioeconomic factors, and in some areas the ASIANS are more advantaged, and in some areas WHITES are more advantaged, and in some ares BLACKS are more advantaged.  Now, he DOES want to change the system to needs based during his administration, and nowhere in the video does he indicate otherwise, what he SAID was that he does think affirmative action will still be necessary, but you're imposing the OLD AA on his definition, when really he has the same idea of affirmative action as you.  Ultimately affirmative action should not be necessary, but at the same time that is not true EVERYWHERE in the U.S.  Personally, I believe all black schools are racist, and I turned down a full ride to Florida A & M to go to my current school because I think black schools are fucked, and they are a nasty artifact of segregation that for some reason blacks have stupidly held on to as symbols of pride.  Personally, i think a white person SHOULD get aa if the school is predominately any other race, although if the whites are richer than the minority, then they probably don't need it, thus the reason it should be wealth based.  it's not unconsitutional if aa is making sure all people are able to pursue happiness through education.  Personally, I think all black schools are more unconstitutional than aa, but technically they're not ALL black, just like 99%.  I was really pissed when some black school tried not to let a white person be the valedictorian because of his race.  That's when I say blacks can go fuck themselves too.  So, to recap:  Obama believes in needs based, and he's the fucking president so if you want to believe it or not, you're only going to make YOURSELF upset by not coming to terms with Obama's centrism.  

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/05/2008 06:59:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]