...that we need to get rid of all taxes, including the corporate income tax, and tax only personal income, but they never get it.

And I'd love to hear your idea about auto insurance.  Do it in a new blog article!

"Government and Personal Finance for Progressives"

(Yeah, you're right.  Nobody reads articles wi th that kind of title.)

by Juarez Traveller on 02/18/2008 12:01:22 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Why can't you just once follow a simple idea.

We tax transactions.  Who gives a damn if someone gets a "paycheck" or if a rental or dividen d or interest or [insert payer source here] payment is automatically deposited in a bank account or if something of value is inherited?  It's all income.

Your proposal that we tax "wealth" defines a transaction that is nothing more than another form of income: inheritance.  Why you assume that it's not and that I wouldn't want to tax it demonstrates another reason for why our exchanges are so mind-numbingly  ;boring to me: you simply don't understand simple concepts and you make invalid assumptions without examining them.

I want to eliminate all other taxes and tax only income transactions -- and there are many differen t kinds including inheritance.

(Please note that I haven't talked about rates, so don't go making the stupid but popular claim that we can't generate enough income to pay for highways and defense or anything else.)

Of course, I realize that following a chain of thought to its logical conclusion is far beyond your capabilities, so you're forgiven for missing this elementary point.

C'mon, Ken.  Use your damned brain.  I'm sick of having to explain the simple stuff to you.

by Juarez Traveller on 02/18/2008 03:18:57 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You think I'm a bum and I'm convinced that you're an idiot.  Other than that -- oh, yeah, you mentioned capital gains taxes for some unfathomable reason that you failed to connect to anything -- I don't see anything which requires a reply.  But just for the hell of it:

Don't you wish that you actually knew something about me besides that I might live somewhere in southern New Mexico?  You're going to have to use much better bait than that transparent  crap.

I'll be sure to let you know when your opinion of me matters.  Until then you can go on believing absolutely anything you want about me because I really don't care what you think of me.  I'm in this forum for the battle of ideas, and on that battlefield you are completely unarmed.  You lack the abilities of comprehension and reason, and you are further crippled by prejudice and an ideology that doesn't permit the exploration of new ideas.

Oh, and about capital gains taxes:  Even you should know that you failed to make any point whatsoever with your statement.  All you accomplished was to waste more bandwidth with more of your brainlessness.

You're shooting blanks, Ken.

by Juarez Traveller on 02/18/2008 04:49:38 AM EST

[ Parent ]

How DARE you give my title away!

There can be only ONE Forum Bum!

I've been the Forum Bum for three years, and I didn't notice any ballots going out to vote for a new one! Who the hell does Ken think he is appropriating my title and just redistributing it to someone else. He must be a Commie!

I worked for YEARS to become the sort of Bum who could hold an office of utter meaninglessness and I resent terribly being stripped of my rank like Chuck Conners at the beginning of "Branded."

An immediate retraction and title return is called for, as well as apologies on Imus', Limbaugh's, and Scarborough's shows. As we have learned in the last few years, only an apology (it's okay, you don't have to mean it) can fix America's problems. Don't male me let Mitt Romney's dogs out!


Haaaaa- RUMPH!!!

by MedfordTim on 02/18/2008 10:25:43 AM EST

[ Parent ]

I kind of like the title.  It doesn't quite fit yet, and I'd have to retire right now.  But my dad retired early and became a golf bum, and is now occupied -- and happy -- with pissing off my sister by continually trying remodel her house.  I admire that.  I think being a bum could be fun for a change!  It's gotta be better than this 25-hours-a-day-8-days-a-wee k business I've got now.

I think I could live up to the title.  I'll start by taking a nap.

by Juarez Traveller on 02/18/2008 01:18:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I actually disagree with Juarez on this one (first time for everything, right?), but that's admittedly after a very superficial review of his suggestion.

And MT not wanting sin taxes?  Screw that. Make marijuana (for example) legal to bring it out of the black market, and instead of wasting millions and millions on arrests and courts and so on, tax it and *make* millions and millions from it.  Now THAT makes sense to me, even though some might call it a "sin tax".  As long as the price is still low enough to keep a new black market from emerging.

PS---Conservatives need to explain their contradiction when they like to talk about how the only people who want higher taxes on "achievers and producers" are people who do neither, yet they also talk about "latte liberals" and liberal hollywood. 

Explain that Ken. I assume in order for people to drive volvos into their nice garages (with fine wines and cheeses in the trunk) they must be some sort of "achiever or producer". I also assume those in liberal hollywood have achieved and produced. And I'm sure those like Warren Buffet (remind me, where does he rank on the richest person in the world list?) have surely "achieved and produced".

Not to mention the fact that most of us here support Obama, and you know which type of voters he's appealing to.

by Tom Hanc on 02/18/2008 12:22:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]

George Soros.  There's another guy who knows how to handle money.  You'd think that Republicans would admire people who make a lot of money and then use it to make the world a better place.

But I guess that strays a little too far from Republicans' policy of out-and-out money-grubbing greed.

As for my tax proposal, it's pretty simple.  All user and sales taxes are regressive by nature and, therefore, unfair in that they are a greater burden the less that you make.  The burden should be shared equally among all citizens, which requires a progressive tax rate.

But if we applied progressive tax rates to all of the different kinds of taxes and revenue-generating mechanisms that we have now, our tax system would become more complicated, more unpredictable, and more expensive than it is now.  I think it would collapse.

I want to simplify things as well as make things fairer. I want to get rid of all sales taxes, user fees, and other revenue sources and have only a progressive net income tax.  I want to tax only net income, but all net income except for assistance and/or investment payments to the poor, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and the like.  I see no reason to exempt any other kind of income.

However, I would provide for income deductions for business expenses, and basic living and investment expenses such as medical, food, housing, education, and child support expenses*.  This is because I'm interested in taxing only real income.  But the whole tax system would be simpler, saving lots on administrative expenses -- and not merely the government's administrative expenses.

And the rate structure would be an exponential curve that matches the exponential income curve.  (That's right, rich guy: we're comin' for ya, because you've benefitted hugely from the infrastructure that we've provided to you.)

The whole purpose is to make it possibly to fairly distribute the burden of paying our country's expenses.  Right now, there's no way to do that without increasing the size and cost of our bueauracracy tremendously -- and unnecessarily.

Note to the left: never apologize for fair taxation.  People have to understand that they are paying a debt that they incurred the day that they were born -- although we'll happily forgive everything and provide for their every need until they grow up.

--------------------------- ---------------

* Here's were I get crazy: Ideally, all of those things should be provided as part of our social contract, and all citizens should share an equal quality of life, also sharing an equal burden for maintaining that quality of life.  This urge that some people have to be "better" than their neighbors is inherently immoral.  Still, I recognize that not all people contribute equally to society.  For instance, I'd take every cent I could from leeches like George W. Bush because they contribute nothing to society.  I'd be more forgiving of Soros.  And the moneychangers and bookkeepers no longer would be the richest people in our society.  It would be the inventors, engineers, scientists, artists, and teac hers who compose the upper crust (with special recognition to extraordinary organizers).

But I'll leave that for future generations to figure out how to provide in future centuries, when they've found that exact center between socialism and capitalism.

by Juarez Traveller on 02/18/2008 02:12:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]

1) Then why have you voted Republican?

2) Bullshit.  The get paid by check -- electronic or paper -- just like everyone else.

3) You assume that there is no inheritance tax -- or, as you Republicans like to call it, a "death" tax.  Hmm.  Well, I guess that since we know that there is one, we can completely dismiss you claim as being totally false.

4) So?

5) I'd like to see some proof to back up that claim.

Your claim that the super rich -- I'm assuming that you mean the majority of them -- vote for Democrats requires proof.  (Here's a golden oldie: "A lot of people call you the elite.  I call you my base.")

Your statement that the middle class -- I'm assuming you mean the majority of them -- vote for Republicans is a waste of bandwidth.  Gore got about half a million more votes than Bush.  And what was the percentage in 2004? 51-49?   Not exactly a "mandate", is it?

It's clear that you learned your debate style in the lap of a Republican.  Lesson 1: If the truth is inconvenient and lying doesn't work, ignore it.

Oh, and your zip code anecdote is another logical fallacy, but I'll bet you can't spot it.

by Juarez Traveller on 02/19/2008 01:16:36 AM EST

[ Parent ]

If I may. Ken, you really need to start reading the articles you link to. This is how the article defines "rich".

"A key measure of each district's wealth was the number of single-filer taxpayers earning more than $100,000 a year and married couples filing jointly who earn more than $200,000 annually, he said."

Are these the super rich people we are talking about? I don't think so. Also, I am familiar with those districts in Maryland, Pennsylvania and Florida and I can tell you that with the cost of living there $200,000 a year is not a whole hell of a lot of money.

The real point to that article is that the suburban Republican is becoming an endangered species. Just like I have been telling you all this time. 

by z1p101 on 02/19/2008 10:50:38 AM EST

[ Parent ]