"If the super delegates feel that Clinton is the best choice to run against McCain and choose her then they are (according to you) violating the will of the people."

His point is that if they do this they are taking a terrible chance of alienating a  large chunk of voters.  Stop and think about something just a second.  Opinion polls show that people are enormously unsatisfied with congress and the senate.  It shows in every poll taken where the question is asked.  There is a reason for that.  People are sick to death of the old guard way of doing business.  They're furious that congress and the senate haven't stood up to the thugs.  Those same people who are now in such disfavor with Americans are the people that constitute a large part of the superdelegates.  Are these insiders going to take their 20something% approval rating out for a spin by cramming Hillary down the throats of a majority of voters who have indicated they are fed up with the Washington crowd?

That would be a huge mistake.  You can't skate on 25% ice.  It isn't smart. 

by bfaul on 03/12/2008 02:19:58 PM EST

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Polls don't count for shit until November for any candidate in any race. Gore, Kerry, Dukakis all led at one point durring their campaigns. Most voters have no idea who or what is a super delegate.

We don't even know what the split is going to be going into the convention. Like I said what if Clinton leads in popular vote and Obama leads in delegate votes what then?

Like the language though "cramming down the throats" they almost have the same amount of popular votes, how is that cramming?  but this really ain't about the will of the people is it? It is about what you want.

Live by the rules die by the rules

I want to win period and I will support whoever the Dem candidate is in Novemeber because that is what is truely important. (my candidate was already knocked out)


by LORD FOUL on 03/12/2008 02:49:57 PM EST

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isn't Obama ahead by over half a million popular votes? It's not a huge lead or anything, but it's not chump change either.

by Tom Hanc on 03/12/2008 02:57:11 PM EST

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We don't know what the split may be.

I am sorry if I offend but this isn't about Obama or Clinton.

It is about us winning in November.

by LORD FOUL on 03/12/2008 03:21:58 PM EST

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"Polls don't count for shit until November for any candidate in any race."

Did I quote polls for a certain candidate?  No.  I just used the poll numbers to indicate how badly people despise the current crop of congressmen and senators.  In that respect do polls count?  You bet your ass they do.  It indicates an undercurrent of dissatisfaction that is primed and ready to be tapped.  I'm convinced that these numbers are directly related to Obama's popularity.  The establishment people keep wondering "what's he got?".  He has an ability to put his finger on the problem, while the Hillarys of the world tap dance around it and put on a show, then vote only whatever they think is politically "safe".   People won't be happy if they think they've been thwarted by people they despise, that's all I'm saying. 

If Obama didn't already have a significant lead I would not be making the argument in his favor, even though I prefer him.   I'd still vote for Hillary over McCain.

by bfaul on 03/12/2008 04:25:43 PM EST

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Not trying to twist your words. We are all victims to this lunacy set up back in the 80s

Never trust in a poll, they can be deceiving. Not eight months ago Clinton was the INEVITABLE candidate (not so much now).

The people are tired of the war and the economy.

As to what Obama has, he has what? What risk has he taken? What problem has he solved? Especially since his election to the Senate. What tough vote has he taken? What tough election has he won? (his election to the Senate was virtually unopposed).

Please explain something to me. People (on the left) hate Clinton because he compromised with Republicans (Isn't that bipartisanship?) Even though he compromised with them they attacked him mercilessly. Obama supporters claim he can end the partisanship and get Pubs and Dems to work together Really?
In order to have bipartisanship you need to compromise, if Obama compromises with the Pubs doesn't make him just like Clinton? Do you really think the Pubs are not going to attack Obama, especially after Carter, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore and Kerry?




by LORD FOUL on 03/12/2008 06:37:31 PM EST

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Thats why I dont like her.


by Chinese Democracy on 03/12/2008 08:27:18 PM EST

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"People (on the left) hate Clinton because he compromised with Republicans (Isn't that bipartisanship?)"

Not me, that's one of the things I always liked about Bill Clinton.  He was skillful at give and take, and was able to get a lot accompished even with a fairly hostile opposition congress.  His wife, I find, does not fully understand the nature of compromise.   She caves where she ought to stand firm, and worse, she tries to play a bipartisan game against people who have zero interest in bipartisanship.  They shake her hand in public and then snicker to each other about how weak she is when she steps across the isle.  There is a time to be centrist, and a time to stand and fight for what you believe.  I no longer trust her ability to differentiate between the two.  She did that to herself, it had nothing to do with Obama.

She's fighting a ruthless battle against Obama, no doubt about it, but where was this ruthlessness when it really counted in the senate?  If only she were so ruthless against the Republicans. 

But look, really, after all this argument, we're still left with the simple fact that she really has almost no chance to win, and she's doing all this damage for nothing. 

"Do you really think the Pubs are not going to attack Obama, especially after Carter, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore and Kerry?"

They attack everyone, absolutley everyone, this is not news to anyone.  The problem with Gore and Kerry is that when they ran for office they toned things down out of caution.  Look at how much more passionate Gore became after the 2000 election.  Kerry has posted some fairly passionate entries on the Huffington Post, and people have often responded by asking him:  Where was all this passion when you ran for office?

For me, this is what Obama has that Hillary lacks.  She will likely try to be all things to all people, speaking from calculation rather than from the heart, and they will smell that like dogshit on the bottom of someone's shoe. 

by bfaul on 03/13/2008 11:56:54 AM EST

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One minute Hillary is the bitch who fights back, who fights dirty, who will do anything to win. The next she lacks the passion needed to win in Nov?

Based on track record, I know Hillary will do whatever it takes to win and that is what we need.

You believe that Obama has the "passion" necessary to win in Nov. great, I hope he does but what is your faith based on? what tough campaign has he fought?

Every Obama post I read talks about how his campaign is different, a new type of politics. How he won't resort to Clinton type tactics. How he will stay above the fray.

The unwillingness to fight is exactly the reason we lose presidential elections. Let me ask you are you proud of the positive campaigns of Dukakis, Gore & Kerry. Are you proud they wouldn't resort to "those" types of tactics. or are you like me pissed at the blown opportunity.

Perfect example today ABC ran a story about Obama's pastor. It was most unflattering. A spokesperson for Obama tried to distance the Senator from the pastors remarks and pointed out that nobody is looking at the pastors of other candidates. NOT GOOD ENOUGH

Obama knew this story was coming. He should have used this opportunity to attack McCain and his crazy pastor, along with his acceptance of the Hagee endorsement. His team should have clips prepared to give to the media showing the comments of McCains' Pastor. Ending the session stating I have disavowed the statements of my pastor, as a GOOD christian McCain should do the same.

If Obama does not forcefully respond to this now, they will drape his pastor around his neck. I can see the ads now, this is why Obama hates America.

I hope you are right.

by LORD FOUL on 03/13/2008 04:43:05 PM EST

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