Morons In PA | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 hidden)
I don't feel like a genius (none / 0)
The thing is all the rules that you live by in the science world are out the window. The very techniques for distraction, deception and misdirection that are disqualifying in science are not merely accepted but indeed encouraged practices in politics and by the media. Its disorienting and difficult for you to read the tea leaves. I fervently believe that this is why public education matters. Its not just important that people be well informed. Even though I listen to this show and post a lot here, I don't consider myself well-informed. But I don't think I need to be. I don't frankly have time (I should post less here too but I'm really animated about politics lately). You have to assume people only get a fraction of the story for similar reasons. The question is what they do with that piece of data once they get a hold of it. Do they understand how to parse it? What does the method of delivery tell them about the messenger? Our public education system and increasingly the university system is not training people mentally to deal with the world around them.

by hazmat on 04/17/2008 07:45:44 PM EST

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agree (none / 0)
I meant that I feel like a genius just for knowing that Iraq didn't bomb the WTC.  I totally agree that we need to teach people critical thinking (and compassion).  Are schools totally failing at this now?  I don't have kids, so I don't know.  I've always lived on the west coast, from Washington to California, so I've been in a leebral bubble my whole life.  I also haven't watched TV in about 20 years, apart from renting shows on netflix and seeing clips on the internet.  But I am a really skeptical person overall and I've always been like that.  Watching the dumbing down of America makes me so sad. 

by desertpear on 04/17/2008 09:45:41 PM EST

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You touched on something important (none / 0)
The big thing is that we have SO MANY distractions nowadays. I've made this point before, but it's good enough to make again...

We have:

TV--one zillion channels with everything from sports and movies to food, fashion and politics.

Internet--with 100 zillion websites offering any number of ways to waste our time (or not waste it, but usually waste it) chatting, surfing and watching porn.

Porn--This deserves it's own category. I feel bad for nerds and quiet types of generations past. Even grossly fat people and other outcasts. What the hell did they used to do?  Now they have all the friends they need online, on television, through netflix, their pc and their video game console.  Oh, and their comic and other books (not singling out comics, just saying fiction in general) offering mass distractions, like the entire sci-fi genre.

Drugs--Sure, these aren't new, although then again, yeah, they are.  At least the prescription stuff that is so often abused. And obviously more varieties of the illegal stuff.

Food--Hunger is a problem, but overall in the US the problem is *too much*, not too little food. People can drown their sorrows in pizza and pop (soda, whatever) and they do.


A draining job and family life--Now that was clearly always around, and to some extent I forgive people for not paying as much attention as I'd like them to WRT politics/science and so on.  If I had a bunch of kids and worked some shit factory job (or whatever), I'm sure I'd sink into the seductive sea of suburbia, floating on the lounge chair with a beer in one hand and a remote in the other.


How else would I want to spend my spare time after I come home exhausted from a boring but hard 10 hour day (and an hour in traffice each way), by reading about politics and science?

You put all of those factors together and it's a recipe for disaster. Or I should say, a recipe for an uninformed, misinformed and generally apathetic public.  When you're struggling to pay bills an cut out your little piece of the pie, who has the time, energy or desire to debate the merits of CO2 caps and top marginal tax rates?

I know, we all make time for what's important. But people don't fee like they can change anything. There is some self fulfilling prophecy element to that I know, but also at least a kernel of truth often times.






by Tom Hanc on 04/18/2008 01:20:32 AM EST

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you're close (none / 0)

but my real point is that all else being equal, that's the world we live in, and people simply don't have the time. Like I said, I'm not an expert at trivial pursuit. I believe myself to be capable of evaluating information on its merits, because I'm lucky and have been afforded certain advantages. What makes an ignorant person (try to imagine an example of "an ignorant statement") isn't lack of knowledge. Its the lack of skepticism it takes to evaluate the knowledge you currently possess. Thus individuals that are equipped with the intellectual tools to evaluate their surroundings are ahead, instantly. People who think critically actually absorb information passively to an extent that others don't. That is why the greatest invention of the enlightenment is the public education system of Scotland that fueled the enlightenment--

--that gave birth to the American Revolution. 

As a humanist I want to expand this opportunity to as many other individuals as possible because I understand the ginormous dividends it pays. In a well educated society, libertarianism trumps everything! Hows that for a concession from a leeeberul??

There are a couple of self-described teachers on this forum, I count so far ProfRich and bobo1. What an underappreciated and underrewarded profession. Kudos to them.

by hazmat on 04/18/2008 02:31:47 AM EST

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Well (none / 0)
for a long time now (this started long before No Child Left Behind, but NCLB is making it even worse) many (most?) public schools have not been teaching critical thinking skills, and rather have been teaching to the test.

Students cram in a bunch of (often useless) factoids instead of learning how to THINK and actively evaluate claims and situations.  These isolated factoids and knowledge nuggets are apparently a subsitute for a solid conceptual knowledge base, which is fine for trivial pursuit and some TV quiz shows, but horrible in most other situations.  BTW, that also helps explain in part why so many "educated" people have nothing insightful or interesting to offer.

Being able to spit out factoids can come in handy, but it takes more than that to be truly smart in my book. I notice Cenk often makes remarks like "so and so went to (fill in the blank university), so they must be really smart" (and he means it). 

There's *some* truth to that, but I hesitate to assume that higher education always equals an insightful and interesting person with something to offer, because sometimes it just means someone did a really good job of studying and taking advantage of their academic opportunities.  I applaud that obviously, but the "smart" thing is a different question IMO.

Anyway, back to K=12 education. Many schools have (again, for a long time but it's getting worse and worse) dropped or de-emphasized subjects like art that encourage individual creativity and exploration, etc.  And civics?

Civics?! Civics?! You wanna take about civics?!  They don't teach that anymore, do they?  ;)

by Tom Hanc on 04/18/2008 08:23:59 AM EST

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personally (none / 0)
after all the bobotx posts I have read. I really dont want him/her/whatever teaching children anything.

Kudos to dedicated teachers that care about the kids they teach.


by Chinese Democracy on 04/18/2008 12:37:53 PM EST

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Thanks (none / 0)

by ProfRich on 04/18/2008 01:03:29 PM EST

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Morons In PA | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 hidden)