Why Do Men And Women Go Too Far? (Friday Fun Thread) | 43 comments (43 topical, 0 hidden)
wow, thanks guys (none / 0)
Appreciate you both doing the work of arguing my position ;).  I fear that I don't have the energy to try to change someone's mind sometimes.  Indeed I am talking about the long term.  I don't fret when people choose to have a child or two, but population needs to be part of the discussion of environmental degradation or we are only treating the symptoms rather than the root of the problem.  Those who don't already see environmental degradation on every front, from water shortages and quality, to air quality, to the plastic that is filling up the bellies of seabirds, to climate change, to extinctions, either are not paying attention, or just don't really care about the non-human environment.  We are inseparable from our environment though, and ignore that to our species' peril.  Jarett is right about one thing--after pondering whether humans actually provide any benefit to the planet, I wouldn't mind seeing them bring their numbers WAY down.  So, count me among those who are quite existentialist and unsentimental about continuing the family line.  My parents' genetic line dies with me. 

by desertpear on 04/06/2008 03:02:35 PM EST

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pop control (none / 0)
And the reason that population control is NOT part of the discussion is political and religious and not scientific.  It invariably brings up the topic of abortion, which is an issue nobody wants to touch except in terms of extremes--choice vs life.  We need to be able to discuss abortion and birth control in more productive, objective ways, without all of the emotion.  This particular topic could be approached in an ethical, bipartisan fashion that acknowledges peoples' concerns with ending life, but also promotes the most ethically acceptable means of preventing unwanted conception and ending unwanted pregnancies early in gestation.

by desertpear on 04/06/2008 03:19:14 PM EST

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Monster! (none / 0)
Baby Killer!  Monster!

(Did I mention baby killer?)  ;)

I was listening to Catholic talk radio yesterday. I do that sometimes for a laugh or to get angry.  There is one show in particular that is incredibly entertaining if you want to be shocked (over the ignorance, and overzealous/warped worldview) called The Drew Mariani show.

Some of his topics are boring (when he gets too much into church history, etc.), but he talks about modern, secular culture a lot.  Like for Halloween he talked about how Harry Potter could be dangerous, and yesterday he was ranting about the "Culture Of Death" and how the "Contraceptive Mentality" was destroying our faith/country.

Oh, and if you're lucky, you'll hear some callers.  I'm amazed at these people.  The questions they ask are so pathetic.  While they might be adults age-wise, their mental/emotional development is questionable at best.  Why else would they call and ask things like "my good friend had a baby through a fertility clinic. I know she loves it very much and it's a wonderful child, but I know what she did was wrong.  What should I do?"

I couldn't believe my ears.  Is she f*ng serious?  I had several choice words for her, but I'll let you weigh in to keep my blood pressure down.  All I'll say is that these people are directionless kids who never grew up and learned to think for themselves.  Sure, everyone needs advice from time to time, but this goes way beyond that IMO.

by Tom Hanc on 04/06/2008 03:28:59 PM EST

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those folks (none / 0)
Must be part of, or similar to the 28% that support Bush no matter what he does.  Sort of a sheeplike mentality where you let someone else decide what is right and wrong for you without needing any evidence or supporting data in order to draw your own conclusions.  This is where Cenk's religious rant should be inserted ;)  It is so far from my experience (even being brought up as a catholic), that I just don't get it. 

by desertpear on 04/06/2008 04:39:44 PM EST

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Of course it does (none / 0)
Population control is incredibly important and is the 800-lb gorilla in the room that no one talks about.  I am afraid, however, that unless we can somehow market it as desirable or create incentives for not having children, we will end up with this.

by jarett on 04/06/2008 03:28:28 PM EST

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You don't create incentives (none / 0)

They happen naturally. As populations become more and more developed and the child becomes a financial strain as opposed to an extra worker in the family work force, birth rate drops.

In most of Europe and Japan with absolutely zero effort population growth has gone negative.  As China has developed, its population growth has declined.  India remains undeveloped and it will soon pass China.

The U.S. is an interesting case.  Due to the large number of people living in poverty and therefore having an undeveloped mentality our population growth remains positive but if you look at the wealthy, or even middle class, you see very little natural growth.

In short, the answer to population growth is development.  Unfortunately the more developed a country is, the more resources it uses per capita so its a double edged sword.

I'm sure that completely allayed your fear. 

by ProfRich on 04/06/2008 11:13:36 PM EST

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seems (none / 0)
I do agree that it happens naturally, but if we want to bring "everyone's" standard of living up, without having to sacrifice our own, or send the planet into code, it makes sense to me to at least try to speed up the process.  I guess I just don't see that limiting people to two children is that much of a sacrifice, but I do realize there is huge resistance to this type of interference in peoples' lives.  Then again, one would seem to want their children to at least inherit a livable planet.  I'm guessing that the buildup of toxics like flame retardants, DDE, etc. will eventually have more effects on human reproductive success.  oh yeah, but we can just grow them in test tubes.

by desertpear on 04/08/2008 11:59:44 PM EST

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Why Do Men And Women Go Too Far? (Friday Fun Thread) | 43 comments (43 topical, 0 hidden)