Mark Penn is out | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 hidden)
Hillary is not a 15 minute famous person (none / 1)
I don't like Hillary Clinton, and I don't want her to win, but there is no need for the Democrats to jump about the Vilify Hillary bandwagon. Also, 15 minutes of fame?  Hillary by no means qualifies as a 15 minute person. Kato Kaelin is 15 minutes of fame, Gennifer Flowers is 15 minutes of fame, but Hillary Clinton is a legitimate influential person whose renown will last a long time.

(I am just filling in for Michael Shure in the Hillary defense department.)

David

by yturks on 04/06/2008 09:02:48 PM EST

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Right there with you, David (none / 1)
I, however, did at first support Hillary before starting to waver several months back (it was the remark about how she and McLame were qualified 2 be POTUS but Obama just gave a good speech some yrs back that finally did it in 4 me) and I thought it was so unfair how she was being treated (if she's tough, she's a bitch, if she shows emotion, she's weak, if she doesn't, she's a calculating Ice-Queen, if she laughs, it's a cackle...Jeebus!!) I also really couldn't understand the outright vitriol spewed at her from the Left - moreso than even the worst of the Right -seemingly for having the unmitigated gall to run against their beloved Obama - who I was truly worried might be getting too much play too soon by people getting mesmerised by flights of rhetoric - *Sigh*- Now she kinda just makes me weary, and I want a Dem to FINALLY start pounding on McLame!  All that is to say the 15 min. comment pretty much illustrates what I mean about how people act like she just fell off the truck  and decided to barge in on Obama's party - kinda silly.

PS - I said MONTHS AGO that I believe Mark Penn was being paid a million over and above what Hillary was paying him to outright sabotage her campaign - I despise that bloated pustule more every time I see his picture - but it is too little, too late in this instance

by 10sejed on 04/07/2008 02:29:38 AM EST

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I think you got it backwards (none / 1)

"unmitigated gall"

I was a hillary defender at some point also. I assumed she was going to be the nominee after the 2006 election, and was pretty excited. When Barack declared, I kept an open mind. I liked his approach, which came off as inclusive, thoughtful, and unpresumptuous. He defended himself against fox news (and therefore defended us). He was outspoken and unapologetically liberal, instead of being a closet liberal like hillary.

Hillary started pandering to the right wing (the flag amendment? come on people) as though she had a prayer with them. And lately she's attacking Obama supporters as well as Obama, and that filters down to her own supporters (look at bobo1 who proudly insults Obama supporters at every possible turn with name calling). Some Obama supporters do it also as you might expect, but in Hillary's case it filters down from the top. She has alienated her own base. How fucking stupid can a presidential candidate be????

Although Obama declared first, everyone knew Hillary was the one to beat. The one who ran with a sense of entitlement (and still is doing so) is Hillary. I heard her supporters in Portland this weekend smugly exclaiming that Obama would be an o.k. choice for her vice president. Personally, I think they're just following her example. That being said, whatever I don't care. I've come full circle on this. I'm with you and I'll support whoever against McCain, who is a very, very, very dangerous candidate. Even in a year when you'ld think no republican has a chance.

by hazmat on 04/07/2008 12:59:18 PM EST

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Perhaps I wasn't clear enough there, Hazmat..... (none / 1)
It was kinda late last night when I was on.  I supported Hillary at first,  like you, since Nov 2006 or even before, and I'd always liked Obama, I just wasn't sure - and you have to admit this is a pretty goddam important election.
 
That said,  I have now pretty much done a 180 in my opinion.  You are 100% right and 0% wrong about her pandering - I kept screaming "WHY? Why are you doing this?!  These people would sooner volunteer to contract Ebola Virus than support your candidacy in the general election!"  (The pic of her sitting at the same table - actually taking questions from - Richard Mellon Scaife, made me ill, and it was the final clue, as if I needed one more, that her desperation was palpable and undeniable)

I guess for the longest I kinda sympathised with her, even when I started to get so disappointed with her actions - you know and I know if Obama hadn't run this time she'd have destroyed the rest of the field by Super Tue (sorry, John Edwards, I like you, but she would've ended up carrying your ass in her change purse)  That has got to be so frustrating!!  I can just imagine her thinking to herself "You little BASTARD! You're still so young! You could've easily waited this one out, while it's probably my last chance!" It's gotta hurt....
Yet probably as much as anything I had -and am still having - an immediate visceral reaction to these people who act like Hillary is the Devil incarnate - I don't know about you, but I was active in the 2000 campaign, and I still remember the people - be they Nader Nimrods or people just too goddam LAZY to get the facts - who kept repeating as if a mantra "Duh, heh, why waste your time on Bush/Gore? There ain't no difference between them." AAARRRGGHH! Now, when someone - here or elsewhere - drops some little pearl of wisdom like "A vote for Hillary is no different than a vote for McCain" I get that feeling all over again, and want to defend her, even though she's disappointed me so.  Probably because I'm scared these are the people who would sit it out, or even vote for McCain, and lose us the election. 

I guess I've become weary of this Dem struggle.  I thought I would like the primaries lasting this long, but no - not when it leaves untouched a Republican opponent who's more beloved and coddled by the MSM than any candidate I've ever seen - including Reagan - Were his fu*king ribs that goddam good?!

OBAMA (or any democrat)IN '08!!
 




by 10sejed on 04/07/2008 03:09:50 PM EST

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cool beans (none / 1)
Like I said, I'm over it, but the demonization is a normal defensive reaction to the propaganda war that Hillary is waging against her own side. So I don't get the same ill reaction that you do when I hear people demonizing Hillary. Yes democrats need to get some perspective. I tell my friends (to paraphrase Cenk) calm down, you're at a 10, you need to be at a 2. In the long run she is fighting for us, but the collective outrage inspired by her campaign is totally self-inflicted. She deserves it.

by hazmat on 04/07/2008 05:20:14 PM EST

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Mark Penn is out | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 hidden)