During time of war, the president is given far-reaching executive authority to prosecute the war. Even the Bill of Rights do not supersede this authority.

 

Thats not exactly true , no...for the sake of argument lets say it is true. With that authority is the assumption that the President has the judgment and obligation to use the authority prudently, against enemies of the United States and not against the citizenry, or most importantly, against his political opponents or for political purposes.

President Bush, if anything, has certainly politicized every aspect of the war for political and personal gain.

by MRFred on 05/11/2008 10:43:50 AM EST

[ Parent ]

 Ah ,the old "It's in the Constitution!" defense.

the Congress is supposed to back the president and allow him to prosecute the war....It's in the Constitution.

 No what's in the constitution is Article 2 Section 2

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States .

 

Article I, Section 8,  of the  Constitution, vests in the Congress the exclusive power:

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water.

**the reprisal section is the "self defense" aspect of the power.

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions

  To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Please show us the clause in the Constitution that states

the Congress is supposed to back the president, and allow him to prosecute the war. 

or words to that effect.  The fact he is the Commander in Chief means he will prosecute a war...when military force will be used, is a matter of conjecture and subject to the War Powers Act of 1973 (Public Law 93-148) . And NO it hasnt been ruled unconstitutional regardless of what that idiot Limbaugh says.

Perhaps your talking about the Bush Cheney crack pipe called unitary executive theory?

by MRFred on 05/11/2008 05:27:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]
After Congress declares war, as they did with the AUMF against al Qaeda, the President is vested with absolute authority to prosecute the war and protect the citizens.

Well I can only rely on that great legal scholar and all around expert on Bush policy Alberto Gonzalez when he said

"GONZALES: There was not a war declaration, either in connection with Al Qaida or in Iraq. It was an authorization to use military force. I only want to clarify that, because there are implications. Obviously, when you talk about a war declaration, you're possibly talking about affecting treaties, diplomatic relations. And so there is a distinction in law and in practice. And we're not talking about a war declaration. This is an authorization only to use military force."

So was Alberto lying again or did he actually have half a clue as to what a declaration of war meant?

As to the the entire "right to bear arms" I will challenge you once again to give me an example of a single gun that you can't own. After an entire lifetime of listening to this argument about how the goon squads are coming for your guns, show me one example of a gun you can't own. Hell the police will sell you a gun that isn't available on the market any more if your looking.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

by Hubble on 05/11/2008 08:52:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
but its obviously not the same one the rest of us live in. 

Your contention that the reason Democrats "have consistently lost on issues like FISA, Geneva, torture, Gitmo, habeas corpus, rendition, etc, etc, etc." is due to Unitary Executive theory is simply idiotic on its face and has no basis in reality.

They simply do not have a veto proof majority since the 2006 elections. They also want to protect the country without compromising our American values and Constitution but the  "unitary executive" is unwilling to compromise on even the simplest issue.

That fact that you reduce these deliberations to a mere "win" or "lose " proposition undermines the entire effort against al Qeada and shows your pride for what it truly is, politics pure and simple.

The politics of fear, played by Bush and the Republican simply to bludgeon a political advantage out of the fear  of terrorism to maintain a majority in Congress. With a majority you can reward the rich with more tax cuts at the expense of the war effort.

That being said, I am wondering, if , in your words, the President has absolute authority to prosecute the war and protect the citizens why is Congress required to do anything? Your inference that his constitutional mandate to protect the citizens also allows him to violate the constitution or existing law to do so is simply wrong.

No matter, consider the term Unitary Executive theory. Operative word...theory. In fact it is a theory of Constitutional interpretation. In that regard the only thing you said in that whole passage that has any basis in truth is that he doesn’t work for Congress.

 the President is vested with absolute authority to prosecute the war and protect the citizens. These inherent powers cannot be bound by law.

Not true . The President is bound by the laws of the land just as the rest of the citizens in the Republic. What is true is that the President has broad constitutional power to take military action in response to attacks on the United States. The powers can and have been "bound"by law in form of  the War Powers Act.

In the law Congress acknowledged the inherent executive power in  the  but under the act, the President can only send combat troops into battle or into areas where ''imminent'' hostilities are likely, for 60 days without either a declaration of war by Congress or a specific Congressional mandate.

After Congress declares war, as they did with the AUMF against al Qaeda...

Nice try, but not true . No declaration of war was ever made by the United States Congress. What is true is

"that the President has broad constitutional power to take military action in response to the terrorist attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001. Congress has acknowledged this inherent executive power in both the War Powers Resolution and the Joint Resolution passed by Congress on September 14, 2001. " JOHN C. YOO Deputy Assistant Attorney General Office of Legal Counsel

Now back to the question you dodged

the Congress is supposed to back the president and allow him to prosecute the war....It's in the Constitution.

Please show us the clause in the Constitution that states

the Congress is supposed to back the president, and allow him to prosecute the war. 

or words to that effect.

One more thing

If he wins, Republicans will support his efforts to destroy al Qaeda

is utter and total bullshit. We'll see. I give it two weeks after the inauguration until the Republicans are not  backing  the President.

 

 

by MRFred on 05/11/2008 10:12:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Where the Supreme Court is showing us what "unconstitutional political hacks" the Democrats in Congress are.

We are through the looking glass people.

Ken, I am going to try and help you here.  Before you make your next post on this thread I am going to ask you to consider two very important words in Supreme Court History.  Dred Scott.  Taney might be a good thing for you to google too.

You were jumping our little canucklehead for getting into your alleged wheelhouse (CO2).  You might consider staying there.

by ProfRich on 05/12/2008 12:02:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]

How's the hunt for Osama Bin Laden coming?

Any idea where he might be?

Any updates on our latest efforts to get him?

I mean really Ken, who the hell do you think you are kidding here Ken? 

by ProfRich on 05/12/2008 01:43:30 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Go back and reread 1984, and you will understand Con logic when it comes to the "War on Terror".

One day the country is at war with Eurasia then without blinking the country is at war with Eastasia, and according to the government it has always been Eastasia.

Osama Bin Laden? Like people in 1984 he has been wiped from the history books, never existed and we never even mention him.

It's not important to win the war. Hell it would be a horrible thing to actually win. What's important is to constantly wage war, and always have that boogie man out there to keep the sheaple afraid.

Don't believe me? How often have you heard people confuse Osama and Saddam?

I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace." - George W. Bush, June 18, 2002

"War is Peace" - Big Brother in George Orwell's 1984

Hope this helps.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

by Hubble on 05/12/2008 06:05:47 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Try the next four to eight years.  On Fox News anyway.

by ProfRich on 05/12/2008 09:47:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
and Bush has done such a great job...

Spin:

The objective of the Bush Administation is to prosecute the War Against Al Qaeda, and protect the citizenry.

 

 

 


 Now for Reality, after a promising start in Afghanistan in 2002...the Republicans and Bush snatched defeat from the jaws of victory...a lot like Mr Bushes bussines ventures...

2004:  Marc Sageman, a counter-terrorism adviser to the U.S. government and author of Understanding Terror Networks, says the United States has largely succeeded in eliminating the leadership of al Qaeda as it stood in 2001. But he says new leaders have emerged to guide the terrorist network, which has evolved into a looser affiliation of groups with common goals. 

2005: U.S. Aborted Raid on Qaeda Chiefs in Pakistan in ’05  A secret military operation in early 2005 to capture senior members of Al Qaeda in Pakistan’s tribal areas was aborted at the last minute after top Bush administration officials decided it was too risky and could jeopardize relations with Pakistan, according to intelligence and military officials.

2006: US intelligence report: Iraq war breeding more terrorists A classified National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) contends that the war in Iraq has increased Islamic radicalism, and has made the terror threat around the world worse.

2007: Qaeda Is Seen as Restoring Leadership

2007: Experts say they still see Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia as largely independent of Al Qaeda’s hub in Pakistan but that they believe the fighting in Iraq will produce future Qaeda leaders.

2008 The State Department's annual report on terrorism includes some sobering news about al-Qaeda, which is said to have "reconstituted some of its pre-9/11 operational capabilities" by exploiting the lack of governance in Pakistan's tribal areas. Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's..

2008: The United States Lacks Comprehensive Plan to Destroy the Terrorist Threat and Close the Safe Haven in Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas

 I must stop with the last one...there are simply to many more to post!

by MRFred on 05/12/2008 01:00:42 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Perhaps you require additional clarification. Democrats have repeatedly failed to defeat the Bush Administration on issues like FISA, Geneva, torture, Gitmo, habeas corpus, rendition, etc, etc, etc because the Supreme Court is beating them down like the unconstitutional political hacks that they are.

I'm not sure how "Democrats" in congress , or in general are associated with the Supreme court refusing to hear a cases. Your great stretch of logic is farly transpearent, and simply wrong,  to associate Democrats en mass with court rulings. I hear HRC is looking for new staff...your ability to spin a "victory" out of nonevents is something to behold.

Lets look at your "scorecard" without the spin

 FISA     &nb sp;    Not Heard by the court
Torture    &nb sp;  Not Heard by the court
Gitmo    &nb sp;     Ruling In July, after extensive Bush defeats in lower courts...

Habeas Corpus   Hardly an outright "victory" in typical Bush/Republican fashion it took  Bush 3 tries before he "won"

In Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, 542 U.S. 507 (2004), re-confirmed the right of United States citizens to habeas corpus even when declared an enemy combatant. The Court affirmed the basic principle that habeas corpus of a citizen could not be revoked.

In Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, 548 U.S. ___ (2006), Salim Ahmed Hamdan petitioned for a writ of habeas corpus, challenging that the military commissions set up by the Bush administration to try detainees at Guantanamo Bay "violate both the UCMJ and the four Geneva Conventions. In a 5-3 ruling the Court rejected Congress's (REPUBLICAN CONGRESS) attempts to strip the court of jurisdiction over habeas corpus appeals by detainees at Guantánamo Bay. 

In the bigger picture, your post demonstrates precisely why this country is on the road to disaster.
The attitude that "victory"  is a result in and of itself.

You are never are concerned by what is right. As long as it results in a tax cut, all is well.

But...psssst let me let you in on a secret...the next president ( Obama or Clinton ) will appoint new justices...enough to swing the court to a new "point of view" So even your moronic spin and premise about the court and democrats could be reversed.

Democrats Republicans are consistently losing significantly historical constitutional battles that will damage the reputation of the party for decades.

By the way piñata boy, back to the question you dodged

the Congress is supposed to back the president and allow him to prosecute the war....It's in the Constitution.

Please show us the clause in the Constitution that states

the Congress is supposed to back the president, and allow him to prosecute the war.


by MRFred on 05/12/2008 10:46:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]

I also find it hilarious that Ken thinks the Supreme Court (particularly this court) rulings will damage any party's reputation whatsoever.  Like the average Americans are sitting there reading court cases and thinking, "Those stupid Dems, they believe in habeus corpus when Clarence clearly doesn't.  I think so much less of them."

If anything this court this far more likely to be remembered as the Taney Court has been.  A crooked obstructionist backwards-ass impediment to freedom.  And of course the Taney Court is right at the front of voters minds, right?  Oh wait, no one but us bloggers gives two shits about the Supreme Court and our minds are made up anyway.  Oh well. 

I think we should create a travelogue of Kenworld.

I am learning it is a place where no one pays any attention at all to issues like failed wars and disastrous economies and rampant corruption but are riveted by Supreme Court rulings and complex arguments about the production capacity of our oil infrastructure.  These GOP types sure have become sad little twisted monsters when forced to defend the results of their complete control of the government, haven't they? 

by ProfRich on 05/12/2008 11:12:28 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Liar!

No its not its not shorthand at all. Is simply what it is

The cases were not heard by the court.

Lets track the spin progression on the Eyewitness News SPIN TRACK 5000! ( and Doppler radar)

 

1. First the spin was that the Bushies are above the law , because the Supreme court "has his back." Oh those macho Justices!

 During time of war, the president is given far-reaching executive authority to prosecute the war. Even the Bill of Rights do not supersede this authority.This is why George W Bush has won every showdown with Democrats. This is why the Supreme Court has his back.
2. When called on this bit of spin, reminding him about the math of the legislature and the thin majorities, it morphed into the old tried and true "It's in the Constitution" defense.

Fred, shall I recount the number of times that Bush has won in showdowns against Democrats on issues related to the war? They roll over to him every time. The Supreme Court backs him every time.When we are in the middle of a war, the Congress is supposed to back the president, and allow him to prosecute the war.It's in the Constitution.

3. Challenged to show where exactly (where the rule that states that the Congress must do exactly what the president says during a time of war)  was in the constitution, rulings or other documnets( Ken has yet to respond)  I, me, myself,  mentioned the Unitary Executive Theory that , by the way, Ken had never heard of before. Suddenly, like a life ring to a drowning man ,the spin transformed into this laugher: the Bush Administration has quietly asserted Unitary Executive...Democrats are trying to politicize the war (!!!!) and thwart the war effort.

 This is why Democrats have consistently lost on issues like FISA, Geneva, torture, Gitmo, habeas corpus, rendition, etc, etc, etc. This is why the Bush Administration has quietly asserted Unitary Executive, while Democrats have loudly protested. Bush is trying to defeat al Qaeda while maintaining the prerogatives of the Executive. Democrats are trying to politicize the war and thwart the war effort.

4. When reminded about the facts in regard to the Unitary executive among other things, and question on exactly how the Democratic Congress inserted itself in the court system: back to the Supreme court , like a a kid runs to his  mama : beating them down like the unconstitutional political hacks that they are.

Democrats have repeatedly failed to defeat the Bush Administration on issues like FISA, Geneva, torture, Gitmo, habeas corpus, rendition, etc, etc, etc because the Supreme Court is beating them down like the unconstitutional political hacks that they are.

5. When asked exactly how the evil Democrats  accomplished all of this magic, the argument morphed yet again to the ever hilarious  Judicial Activism ( Gasp!) Defense...(Wait a minute, didn't the Supreme Court have "Bushes back"?  What liberal activist judges are we talking about? The liberal activist judges that upheld the "Bush victories" and therfore were not reviewed by the courts? Those "hacks"?)

Whenever Fred says "not heard by the Court", that's just his shorthan d for "The Supreme Court refused to hear the case and upheld the lower court ruling, thereby confirming the legal concept of Unitary Executive, and rejecting the liberal notion of judicial activism". 

Finally, congratulations are in order, to myself and my esteemed opponent.

In 4 posts we have "confirmed the legal concept of the Unitary Executive",  a feat that 230 years of legal briefings, historians, scholars, and the Courts themselves can't consistantly define or even agree on.

Damn I'm good.

 

 

 

 

by MRFred on 05/12/2008 06:44:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Is it legal for a SC Justice to except extremely valuable gifts from a defendant (Cheney) in the form of vacations and then sit on cases involving said defendant?

What's that? It is if the crooked judge says so?

You have a strange understanding of the law, Ken. 

by ProfRich on 05/13/2008 01:56:50 AM EST

[ Parent ]

1) I am astonished to hear this.  There shouldbe an investigation.  Paid for by the taxpayers.  No expense should be spared.  Every person the Clinton have ever brushed up against should be interviewed.  Millions of documents should be pored over.  Congress should get involved.  We could even publish the findings in book form.  Certainly if we did that we would be able to prove at least some corruption on the Clinton's part and throw them in jail where they belong.  If only we could have an investigation of the evil, evil people.  Then we would get 'em for sure.

2) So even if they are corrupt.  If all of this is true they are about 2% as corrupt as Bush/Cheney Inc.  McCain has been censured for worse than this three times!!!!  ANd that doesn't even address his wife-beating, cheating, drunk, violent, abusive personal life.  I am a pragmatist.  I vote for my best choice.  Give me a choice between two crooks and I will take the less crooked one with better policies.  Other people on this board fall for this, "your guy (girl) is not a saint so therefore vote for my demon" line of argument.  I don't sit around waiting for the messiah. 

3) My attitude towards Bush malfeasance is the same as mine towards Clinton's.  Let him stand up to the largest investigation in the history of the world and be found innocent of any government corruption or abuse of power and I will let it go.  What is your stance?  It was right to investigate Clinton but we shouldn't even breathe a word about your guys troubles?  And you call me a hypocrite?  Grow up.

Oh, and I didn't even read this post.  I don't care.  She is not the nominee.  Its not even relevant. 

by ProfRich on 05/13/2008 10:33:27 AM EST

[ Parent ]

1) Democrats conrol  Republicans controlled Congress. They could have investigated and subpoenaed to their heart's content, and Republicans Democrats couldn't do anything about it. And yet they don't, because they have nothing.

2. "I don't recall McCain being accused of rape, and worse crimes. That's Bill Clinton territory."

Do you recall Clinton being exonerated of rape?  Investigations and trial being dropped because there was no evidence? 

This discussion is about government corruption.  McCain is corrupt.  He gets paid to do corporate interests bidding.  In terms of courruption (which we are discussing) this is worse.  Mostly because he has been found culpable and made to apoligize mutltiple times.

3. "Democrats conrol Congress. They can investigate and subpoena to their heart's content, and Republicans can't do anything about it. And yet they don't, because they have nothing."

How do we know they have nothing without an investigation.  I am pretty openly disgusted with the refusal of these Dems to practice oversight.  The centrists and blue dogs need to go.  We need more progressives.

Oh, and they have subpeonaed as you well know.  The crooked ass pubs jsut refuse to answer subpeonas, I guess because they are so law abidiing?

Anyway this is all neither here nor there.  No one but the most tax cut loving bibile thumping Kool-Aid drunk conservatives believe the Repbulicans aren't crooked.  Its the #1 reasons for the 06 ass-kicking and polls show the belief has only intensified.  You are always going to say whatever you have to say to get your tax cut.  You don't believe it and we all know it.  No one else believes it either.  Like all true Republicans, you are just a whore for money.

by ProfRich on 05/13/2008 11:36:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]

First, that many women (2?) can't be lying but the twelve who have now filed complaints against KBR are all liars, huh?

Second, what is the statute of limitations on rape in Arkansas?  Certainly more than four years or whatever it was before Huckabee took over right?

Huckabee became governor on a "Hate Clinton" platform!!!!!  He pardoned a serial rapist and murderer becuase the guy raped a distant relation to Bill. (which in light of the new Republican pro-rape platform makes a lot more sense).  You telling me dictator Huckabee couldn't even ask a few questions about Juanita Bordrick?

Let it go, man. Clinton is gone and Hillary lost and the defenders of rape are now the Bushies.  If you want to keep talking about Bill and rape please post it to a 90s nostalgia board.

Oh, and I am sure Starr never bothered to look into this.  I mean he had such a tight focus on that investigation, right?

This is stupid. 

by ProfRich on 05/13/2008 12:29:54 PM EST

[ Parent ]
This is just insane.

by ProfRich on 05/11/2008 11:48:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]