In Australia, what they call the Liberal Party is populated by a gang we'd recognize as neo-cons. Go to Iran, and you have on one hand the Mullahs and theocrats who rule the place, and on the other the moderate reformers - or what the papers call "the conservatives" and "the liberals" - and even Bushies agree we must encourage the latter group, though their stance on God, guns and gays is unknown.

So you see, context is everything and meaning is flexible. Having said that, I see a basic problem when you use the words "conservative" and "liberal" to set up a dichotomy: a set of mutually exclusive worldviews. "Conservative" comes with this comforting association of preserving the things we hold dear, and heck, everyone wants to conserve something, be it the environment or free speech or Classic Coke. Whereas with "liberal", you can picture a guy flailing his arms and throwing your tax dollars into the air, which is how the right has caricatured the left and turned the label into an all-purpose negative, a cartoon of wild-eyed advocacy of change for its own sake. It has nothing to do with how thoughtful people on the left think government should be run, as fair and responsible and adaptable to changing conditions. So no, I'm not sure cleansing the reputation of one word that got turned against us needs to be a top priority, though I'd be happy to see it happen. What we really need is a better set of code words to define of the split - we evolve, they stagnate. They're the stags, and we poot in their general direction.

by ashbul on 05/12/2008 02:36:11 AM EST

However, I don't think we're really advocating a concerted effort to just "cleanse" the liberal label. I'm not, anyway, not really. I just don't want us or our candidates to run from this label any longer.

It would be nice to educate the general public on what liberals in this country actually believe, but I don't think that's even absolutely necessary at this point. All you really have to do is point out how blatantly wrong the other side has been and still is.

And you're right about how the meanings of conservative and liberal differ from place to place and time to time. But we don't have to connect to whatever liberals supported throughout the entire span of history or even the entire span of the globe. This is about America right now and how we envision it going forward, and we are currently viewed as being "liberal." So let's not run from it, okay? Let's just let the people know what being "liberal" actually means, and how the people who have been right for the past several years, if not decades, have been "liberals."

by Weapon X on 05/12/2008 03:04:06 AM EST

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but the context for the labels liberal and conservative in happyhominids excellent excellent post were patently unambiguous.

I have only one minor gripe with happyhominid. The conservative movement is not an abject failure. They are, as David Brooks like to say, spending some time in the wilderness. But they continue to enjoy a massive infrastructure, they continue to control every level of the national conversation by permeating the MSM. They continue their stranglehold on the minds of a very large voting block, probably > 30% (judging from Bush's approval rating). Unlike the coalition that is likely (but not certain) to elect a democrat to power this year, they are disciplined, monolithic, and not going anywhere. Its good that the liberal blogosphere has found its voice and has core issues (individual freedom, fiscal discipline, peace, education, conservation) to rally around, but how to pursue these agenda's has not been fleshed out that well beyond the first or second round of policy by the leaders of the democratic party (Clinton or Obama). A real vision for the future has not been laid out. This is why some pundits say that while Obama is "Reagan-esque" in his ability to speak to moderates of the opposition party, he lacks the ideological foundation.

Ideology has gotten a bad rap in the Bush administration. But this is a mistake: its the blind adherence to ideology in the face of contravening facts that's the problem. Still it's a legitimate gripe against Obama that he hasn't spelled out a vision for America's future--even recognizing that we won't be having this conversation about the other two candidates who are basically political windsocks.

by hazmat on 05/12/2008 01:23:59 PM EST

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I'll happily accept your "minor gripe" and just point out that my use of the word "failure" was strictly in a qualitative sense.  I certainly didn't mean to imply that they are out of the way!

It's another day in paradise...

by happyhominid on 05/12/2008 02:52:46 PM EST

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