"The WORST THING is, that she will go up to West Virginia and Kentucky, and CONTINUE to make this impossible attempt at the nomination by basically stoking the fires of RACISM among WHITE TRASH supporters in the backwoods of West Virginia and Kentucky!"

And its OK to call Democratic Voters in Middle America White Trash because? Tarheel - this is the exact sentiment that will cause Obama to lose the General election in November...

And you guys wonder why people call Obama and his supporters "elitists" or "snobs"!

Obama got the nod - great - now he better learn where his bread and butter really is going to be - all those poor, working class white trash you so look down upon, Tarheel... Blacks and the youth vote isnt gonna get him elected overall - He's gonna need that West Virginia and Kentucky White Trash - so go ahead, keep letting your true feelings out - Thats what will hand this election to Grandpa Death...

You guys amaze me! Its not Obama I really dont like - its his rabid minions who do his dirty work for him... you are the elitist snobs and you really make your guy look unelectable and worse than he really is...

ps - I know you are in NC, and since I used to teach there I feel partly responsible for this, but feud is spelled   F-E-U-D. Thanks...

by bobo1 on 05/07/2008 12:34:21 PM EST


I've never thought of the phrase "white trash" as a racial one, but rather, a socioeconomic one. And yes, I know it has the word "white" in it.

PS---Did you know that there is more genetic difference between sexes than between races?

by ihavenobias on 05/07/2008 12:47:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I could argue just as well that the N word could be construed as socioeconomic, but I wont parse words on that matter - Neither term should be acceptable to people promoting unity and harmony as Obama does...

I dont take racial offense to the term White Trash (since I am White Trash and proud of it), but Obama supporters cant have it both ways - they cant go around preaching harmony and the end of racial diviseness and then call the majority of the people in your own party White Trash.

I hate to keep saying this, but most Democrats are white and somewhat poor in this country. Calling them white trash makes you Obama supporters look two sided and hypocritical (sp).

Like I said, just keep telling yourselves that you bring people togehter. Obama supporters' actions (especially on the blogs) dont show it - and thats why McCain still has a shot of winning when he really shouldn't..

Thanks for your comments as always, bias...

:)

by bobo1 on 05/07/2008 01:02:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
When do you see me writing posts about how we all need to get along and hold hands?  I think you're promoting a polly-anna-ish misrepresentation of the general sentiment.

Also, to some extent well ALL judge/make assumptions about people based on appearance (I'm not just talking skin color, I'm talking about dress, mannerisms, etc.), but hopefully we all *try* to judge based on behavior.

And I am of the opinion that appearance matters in so far as people WILL judge you on it as much as that sucks.  That's why I get pissed at dopey protesters who go around all sloppy with a potleaf or tye-die shirt, a bunch of piercings, unmanicured facial hair and so on.

Even if their message is 100% correct, the very people who's minds they need to open or change will be so put off by their appearance (and all of the assumptions that come with it) that it actually reinforces the OPPOSITE belief.

That's why someone needs to start a movement where everyone is dressed in suits with neatly combed hair and no piercings.  Seriously, think about it for a second.

Imagine turning on the news and seeing footage of thousands of professional types (of all colors and genders obviously) walking down the street in an orderly manner.  And when they're asked questions, they don't hoot and holler like idiots, they calmly (but passionately) explain their position in a concise manner minus any slang.

Now THAT would have an impact.  But people don't care enough to do it.  They'll complain and argue that appearance shouldn't matter, ignoring the fact that it DOES.  If their ultimate goal (whatever that may be, stopping global warming, bringing peace, etc.) is truly important to them, they'll sacrifice the dopey clothes and stop saying "dude" for a few hours.

by ihavenobias on 05/07/2008 01:24:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I live in a city of college students and young radicals that love to protest and look like a pack of lunatics while doing it.  Last year they were protesting police brutality--as in  shabby punk youths holding signs during rush hour that said "Off the pigs!"  These were hopefully not the college students, who should be a little smarter than that.

I have hesitated to put an Obama sign on my lawn not because I am shy about supporting him, but because I live in a rural area where I am trying to provide habitat for wild birds and critters by cultivating native species and I treat my front yard as a "meadow" instead of a "lawn."  I'm always worried that people will then associate Obama with supporters that don't care enough to mow their lawn. (I care enough not to, actually.)

by desertpear on 05/07/2008 11:51:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I never would have thought of that but it kind of makes sense.

The lawn thing I mean.

by ihavenobias on 05/08/2008 12:20:20 AM EST

[ Parent ]
"My front yard is a nature preserve!"

:)

by jarett on 05/08/2008 02:54:16 AM EST

[ Parent ]

In twelve hours we learn bobo is a white trash (possibly racist) drunk.  Interesting stuff.  One might ask if this has any bearing on how we should receive his "analysis".

Oh, and I think its kinda difficult to claim most of the Democratic party is white trash and the white trash is voting for Clinton.  If this was true, wouldn't she be winning?  Just a thought.

Finally, do you really think it valid to judge a candidate by their most obnoxious supporters?  Do you think the vast white trash base of the Democratic party spends a lot of time reading elitist blogs?  This seems like a strange logical progression to me anyway. 

by ProfRich on 05/07/2008 01:46:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You are right - White Trash do not feel welcome on the blogs here at TYT or elsewhere (gee I wonder why) so where do they get their perceptions of Obama and his supporters?

Oh thats right, the MSM who have been spewing Wright and Farrakhan for the past month -

So yeah, I dont think they'll have any problems getting a clear picture of what Obama is all about, eh?

Your arrogance is astounding - You are so lucky that McCain is so bad or else you would be crying like a little bitch (Im sure just like you did in 2000 and 2004) when the unqualified Republican wins...AGAIN...

You guys really crack me up... Now I remember why my folks didnt allow me to be a Liberal when I was growing up...

:)

by bobo1 on 05/07/2008 01:54:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Liberals can't understand the "elitist" label. They love Muslims. They love blacks. They love gays. But how they hate poor white people! They hate their guns and their religion and their bigotry. The GOP has been very successful at exploiting this stupidity.

by KenTX on 05/07/2008 02:21:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"Liberals can't understand the "elitist" label."

Of course, that's only because the Conservatives misuse the term. They keep insisting that it's the people who DON'T have a hundred million dollars, political dynastys in their families, trust funds for grandkids, or need scholarships for higher education who are the "elite."

I tell ya, nothing cracks me up faster than any of the FOX commentators talking about Obama being "elitist." It's PROOF that their gawd delusions are just that - otherwise, bolts of lightning would soon reduce the FOX set to rubble - fair and balanced.....

by MedfordTim on 05/07/2008 03:34:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The real Barack Obama was on display when he was caught on tape, talking to his peers at the elitist San Francisco fund raiser. He spoke with derision and disdain and contempt about the Great Unwashed trailer park dwellers who cling to their bibles. Nobody could label Bill Clinton as elitist, because he grew up in a double wide himself, and he ran as a conservative. That's why he kicked our ass twice, and that's why I never want to face the likes of him again.

by KenTX on 05/07/2008 06:04:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
C'mon, Ken, don't piggyback one of my posts for this kind of effluent, puh-lease! Talking to peers, maybe; I don't know who was in the room. But, "elitists"? Don't hardly think so, since I doubt there were ANY Republicans in the room.

:-)

by MedfordTim on 05/07/2008 07:13:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]

"Nobody could label Bill Clinton as elitist, because he grew up in a double wide himself"

Dammit too bad Obama backgroun is so elit....

Wait a minute! Ken is talking out his ass again! 

by ProfRich on 05/07/2008 07:19:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]

You remember the old saying about the Christmas turkey...

 

 

 

by MRFred on 05/07/2008 11:11:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I love those pajama bottoms and we can get the kids clothes they like really cheap there

by ProfRich on 05/08/2008 12:12:43 AM EST

[ Parent ]
cross off all those constituencies, and appeal to poor white people solely on the basis of their presumed bigotry against them, you're bound to get a few of those votes. Oh you forgot to mention catholics and wetbacks. but who am I to argue? They say we're going to be a white-minority country in 20 years. So have at it Hoss.

by hazmat on 05/07/2008 03:34:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
In 2008, the GOP will take a higher percentage of Catholic and Mexican-American votes than ever before. These groups don't like elitists either.

by KenTX on 05/07/2008 05:24:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
you'll have your work cut out for you in the party of Pat Buchanan, Lou Dobbs, and Duncan Hunter.

by hazmat on 05/07/2008 05:28:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The GOP is the party of Juan McAmnesty, co-sponsor of the Kennedy McCain "Ya'll Come On In" Immigration Bill.

This is the reason acroso hates his guts.

by KenTX on 05/07/2008 07:05:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]

They are really gonna run on all McCain's flip-flopped positions.  Imagine the debate.

Moderator: How do you feel about immigration.

McCain: I have been clear it must be stopped and the illegals must be deported and locked up!!!

Moderator: Won't that hurt you with the Hispanic vote?

McCain: I sponsored the amnesty legislation.  I love illegals and they should love me! 

Moderator: Sen McCain, Obama wants to withdraw from Iraq?

McCain: He's a coward!  He's a surrender monkey! I love the war.  I've said I will stay for 100 years!

Moderator: But only 2% of the people now support the war?

McCain: And that is why I am so critical.  I am on the record calling for withdrawl.  I hate the war. 

Moderator: Now you have come out supporting torture?

McCain: Torture is awesome. If we don't torture, all your kids will die.  Tomorrow!

Moderator: Weren't you tortured yourself?

McCain: And that is why I am so against torture.  We must never stand for torture!

Moderator: Moving onto campaign finance....

I could do this all day.  Is Ken tipping the GOP's general election strategy?

Obama won't even have to show up for the debates.  Grampa Death can just debate his various incarnations. 

McCain's claims to support all sides of all issues?  His record certainly suggests this. 

 

by ProfRich on 05/07/2008 07:28:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
He is always trying to stake out the centrist, moderate position on every major issue. He works across the aisles better than anyone in the history of the Senate. Acroso hates McCain's guts, and this is reason enough to consider him a worthwhile candidate.

by KenTX on 05/08/2008 02:41:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]

"He works across the aisles better than anyone in the history of the Senate"

Ummm, no.  Not even close.  My initial reaction is Henry Clay but Stephen Douglas is up there as well.  No way its McCain but I haven't researched this particular issue. 

"Acroso hates McCain's guts, and this is reason enough to consider him a worthwhile candidate."

You may be on to something here.  Where is our Minister of Hate and Grammar?  I wonder if he and bobo are ever seen in the same place?

Maybe acro took a couple of English classes and got a new nic.

by ProfRich on 05/08/2008 08:58:50 AM EST

[ Parent ]
He disappeared the day we started teasing him about being from Memphis. I had no idea that was such a sensitive subject to him. He will reappear some day under a new nic.

by KenTX on 05/08/2008 10:48:36 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Was it immediately after the NCAA championship game?  Because his team beat mine.  Thought he might enjoy that.  Those Tigers were pretty damn good after all.

by ProfRich on 05/08/2008 11:23:46 AM EST

[ Parent ]
"He will reappear some day under a new nic. "

Are you mentally retarded?

by Chinese Democracy on 05/08/2008 01:38:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ken's probably right on this.

by Spencer on 05/08/2008 07:44:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What do these nics have in common?

A. spathi

B. acroso

by KenTX on 05/08/2008 10:55:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
this is among the reasons why McCain has always been the strongest in the republican field. Why the party base doesn't get that, I don't know. I would have seriously considered voting McCain against Gore in 2000, because at the time I thought he was principled, and I (like many other liberals) bought the argument that there was little diff. between republicans and democrats. He has major cross-party appeal. I no longer think he's principled, but he still has this image. For that reason I continue to think that he is very dangerous and shouldn't be underestimated. I'll leave the underestimating to the conservatives, who apparently think that Obama is a sucker and will get his ass handed to him. After all, underestimating Obama worked out real well for Hillary, didn't it?

by hazmat on 05/07/2008 07:35:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Haz, here is that Michael Hirsch article that I owe you. This article deserves its own thread, and I'll try to get around to it later.

Hirsch has discovered the structural, demographic advantge that keeps electing Republicans. Senator Jim Webb of Virginia wrote the best book that has ever been written on the subject.

The Scot-Irish are tax-hating, war-loving, baby-producing, Republican-voting rednecks who have been driving American politics since Andrew Jackson. They are the reason we go to places like Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan. They are the reason that trailer park dwellers vote Republican. They are the reason for the Whiskey Rebellion and every other anti-tax movement in America. They are the reason for America's great win-loss record in wars and minor conflicts.

by KenTX on 05/08/2008 02:06:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]

It was excellent. I recommend it to anyone on this forum to check it out. I think when you get around to blogging about it, I anticipate a steaming pile of horseshit, but who knows? maybe you'll surprise me. In my own background I've read the McCullough book (John Adams) that Hirsh cites and another one called How the Scots Invented the Modern World, which is really about how the scots invented America (I also recommend!!). There's an entire section devoted to the Canadian and U.S. frontier. I've long thought the South won the civil war because of the southern strategy. This article was very nuanced and insightful. Thanks again.

One more thing, the reasons for going to places like Iraq, Viet nam Afghanistan etc are a lot more complicated than your post implies. I think you must be aware of this, but I didn't want that to slip by unchecked.  Michael Hirsh in fact argues that the balance has tipped only recently in favor of Rednecks. He also suggests that they're not as dumb as a group as some politicians think (and I'm talking about the ones that pander to this group--not 'bittergate').

by hazmat on 05/08/2008 03:44:58 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I feel perfectly welcome here.

by MedfordTim on 05/07/2008 03:28:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
racist dick wads like you.

by Chinese Democracy on 05/07/2008 01:57:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]

but I'm with bobo on this one. Calling people white trash is not a way to attract their vote, and its inconsistent with Obama's own message. I don't think its a minor problem with your post either, that I'm nitpicking.

people in the rural areas of these states are the ones that have been hit worst by republican policies, and whether some of them vote one way or the other for racialist reasons is their business. If you call them names like that you needlessly play into Karl Rove's hands. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we have to act like republicans to appeal to them, i.e. pretend to like the same cultural activities (like Hillary does). That's just phony. But you need to be appealing to the best in people, and you'll be surprised how they respond.

by hazmat on 05/07/2008 02:16:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Eurotrash then?

Nothing better than some peroxide, nipple rings and a tattoo of Bono on the arse.

You guys need to lighten up. 

by MRFred on 05/07/2008 11:19:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]

though I did get a chuckle fred. :-D

In the context of the original post that started this whole thread, I think the term white trash is wrong-headed. Some of'em vote, and some of'em are even racist, probably. The problem is that by generalizing about them, by forcing them into categories like this, you alienate most of them, including probably a significant portion that might be open to voting for a black guy. Evidence you ask? Look at what Bill did by dismissing the vote in S.C. Before that primary Hillary was drawing 20-40% of the Black vote. After, <10%. Assuming she was getting 55-60% of the 'white-trash' vote before, and >70% after, did these voting populations cancel out or did she gain a real advantage? No one has analyzed this question in detail to my knowledge.* Polarization is a double edged sword, and works best for people who have no real appeal on policy grounds. That's why ken is so fond of it ;-).

So in a sense bobo has a significant point. He says he doesn't mind being called trash--that's fine. But if you use it as an epithet against a class of people, you damage your own party in the eyes of that group, and lose votes. He's also right that Obama supporters can't have it both ways.

 

*Mark Penn probably has done this, but that data will stay under lock and key. 

by hazmat on 05/08/2008 02:58:52 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I grew up being called "oil field trash", and I was proud of the label. Rednecks love being called rednecks. White trash laugh at the term.

Bill Clinton grew up as a white trash redneck. That's why Republicans were helpless to lay a glove on the guy. If Democrats were smart, they would run a southern redneck for president during every election cycle.

But Democrats are anything but smart. They are nominating a black elitist who doesn't like and doesn't trust Redneck America. If they lose this election, this will be the source of the defeat.

by KenTX on 05/08/2008 03:15:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Southern populist redneck Democrats are powerful candidates.

Obama is not an elite.  He's just not a dumbass. 

by ProfRich on 05/08/2008 09:00:50 AM EST

[ Parent ]

but this form of support doesn't translate to Hillary. Even with bill out there as a surrogate. Her wins against Barack are a mirage. She can't play that game against McCain.

Still, maybe its time for me to make this observation: with all this talk of the poor working class vote and polarization, at the summit of its importance it has never delivered more than 51% of the vote. Reagan did not win solely on the backs of Rednecks, he won large majorities. He caught the democratic party off-guard because they were stuck in their ways and didn't recognize the realignment that was happening right under their noses. These people were just waiting for someone to come along and tell them it was okay to switch.

If you can't recognize the level of dissatisfaction with the government right now, you must not be paying attention. Republicans are toast (in house and senate races). Why do you think so many are 'retiring'? Its to save face lebowski. That's the smart ones. If we go through another election cycle putting up with the kind of limp-dick politics of Harry Reid and Nanci Peloci, it won't just be republicans in trouble, it will be moderate democrats. The disconnect between the media and popular sentiment is so huge right now I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

Obama is tapping into this dissatisfaction. That's why his call for "Change", though cliched, is incredibly timely. Remember back when there were 20 candidates in the primary? Didn't you all notice the way republicans and democrats alike started parroting barack's message after Iowa? Even Huckabee--who won Iowa in an upset. Hillary has copied or coopted every slogan he's come up with.

Take stock of what has happened in the last 3 months and you have credit the guy. He beat the system, he beat the biggest name in politics and his juggernaut political machine, and his enormously popular wife (among dems), he beat the media, and he outraised everybody with small contributions. Did you hear Hillary complain about being outspent yesterday? I laughed so hard.

I'm continuously amazed by the complacency of the republican pundits. They think spitballs are gonna take this guy down. 

 

by hazmat on 05/08/2008 12:48:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]

It seems appropriate for the Hatfield-McKoy thread too:


by hazmat on 05/08/2008 01:02:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]

 So in a sense bobo has a significant point. He says he doesn't mind being called trash

He was probably drunk when he said that. Also ,ignore Ken. He say whatever he feels will generate the most indignant responses.The only thing Ken says that is 100% correct is in regard to SEC football, good beer, cigars and Navy history.

There is not one person on this website that has the remotest idea of what people who are referred to as  " white trash", " trailer park trash", "cowboy trash", "redneck trash", "hillbillies",&qu ot;crackers"...whateve r, are all about including me. The fact that we are using this website, have a computer , we are discussing the subject and for the most part have access to high speed Internet shoots that in the foot.

How do you measure the "white trash" demographic?  You cant. I don't think "white trash" is a category on the census questionnaire.  You can however  "profile" whites in a certain economic group by geographic area. Why go to all the trouble, it really doesn't matter.

What it boils down to is:

  1. There are the poor.
  2. There are middle income
  3. There are the rich 

The Rethugs have convinced group one since Richard Nixons day  that the Republican party is the best for them through "values" wedge issues. They throw out wedges to separate white poor from black, north from south, Protestant from Catholic...you get the idea. Once you separate the bits and pieces of group one from the vote pool, you can negate their impact or absorb their vote.

Thats why Rethugs are so hot on "values", ironic since they don't believe it themselves. That is the only way they can convince Group 1 to identify with the GOP. Fred Thompson cranked up his Tennessee drawl and drove his red pickup truck to campaign. He drove his Lexus to the fund raising cocktail parties.

If Group 1 lifted the hood on the Rethug polices...they would be toast.

The bad news for the Rethugs is that group 2 is now "trickling down" ( yes the pun is intended) to group one. The other bit of bad news is that oil will most likely be 130$-150$ a barrel by election time.

Listening to Obama's NC victory speech I would say you going to see him moving to the right , more folksy, "value" driven. He doesn't have to keep the left wing of the party happy any more. Just a guess.

 

by MRFred on 05/08/2008 03:23:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]
was the best he's delivered since new hampshire. but the new hampshire remains my favorite speech of the entire primary season by any politician. It was a piece of effing genius.

by hazmat on 05/08/2008 03:43:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]


And its OK to call Democratic Voters in Middle America White Trash because?

Don't get on a high horse now.  You already repeated called them "Joe Sixpack."  "White trash" is merely an extrapolation of that condescent (not to mention one that leaves out the alcoholism factor). 

by OneHitKill on 05/08/2008 09:16:41 AM EST

[ Parent ]