Historically Ken, the market "spins out of control" when there is NO government intervention, reference 1929-1933.

Only a fool believes there was no government intervention in that time period.

by Twba on 05/09/2008 01:45:07 PM EST

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The U.S. Government is no more or less captive to special interests than it has been throughout history

by Chinese Democracy on 05/09/2008 03:00:56 PM EST

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But it hasn't stopped you.

by KenTX on 05/09/2008 03:34:26 PM EST

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Dub, please weigh in with neoclassical liberal economic theory. We are winning over hazmat, and Prof Rich is ready to embrace Uncle Milty.

by KenTX on 05/09/2008 03:32:57 PM EST

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...Prof Rich is ready to embrace Uncle Milty.

Rich has a long way to go still.

Nick86 is stuck on Marxist nonsense. I recommend that he check this out of the university's library.

by Twba on 05/09/2008 05:22:48 PM EST

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Rich is trying to apply old fashioned Marx and Engels socialist economic models that have been repudiated the world over. The days of static trench warfare between labor and capital are forever dead. In France and Canada and Germany and Italy and the Czech Republic, pro-American, pro-Bush, pro-free market presidents were elected because voters ha ve had it with socialism. 
harper 
berlusconi

havel 



sakozy
merkel

by KenTX on 05/09/2008 05:32:02 PM EST

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He started this thread with his typical challenge in the form of an insult,

"Sorry to break it to you "free market" morons"

and then, after he starts getting his ass kicked, he runs away like a little girl.

This causes me to lose respect for him. If an elite, intellectual grad student in economics can be punk slapped on the subject of economics by a couple of regular Americans who cling to their beer and guns, then what exactly is he supposed to be good at? 

by KenTX on 05/09/2008 05:39:54 PM EST

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I think I'm beginning to understand Nick's obsession with the U.S. economy. He understands that when we embrace neoliberal economic policies, the rest of the world must follow our path in order to compete. Globalization has no time for the lazy and non-productive.

Nick is campaigning hard to have the U.S. follow France in constructing a socialist’s dreamland.

France’s top personal tax rate is 48 percent, with a VAT tax of nearly 20 percent. So that means French laborers face a combined 68 percent tax rate on consumption and investment. No wonder France has created less than 3 million jobs over the past 20 years, compared to 31 million in the United States. Economic growth in “cowboy capitalist” America has exceeded that of France’s worker paradise by nearly 50 percent.

In a dramatic speech to the European Parliament last summer, British Prime Minister Tony Blair hit the mark when he criticized all Western European economies for their inability to compete on an acceptable global level. Asked Blair, “What type of social model is it that has 20 million unemployed in Europe? Productivity rates falling behind those of the USA? That, on any relative index of a modern economy — skills, R&D, patents, information technology — is going down, not up?”

Financial Times international editor Olaf Gersemann blames French and European unemployment on high minimum-wage requirements and overly strict employment-protection laws. Gersemann, who scathingly criticized Western Europe in his book “Cowboy Capitalism,” says these labor-market regulations have created millions of involuntary unemployed throughout Europe, affecting immigrants in particular. He writes, “Most French, German, and Italian voters simply refuse to accept the necessity of a Thatcher-Reagan style economic revolution.” He notes that per capita income in the U.S. now exceeds that of France by close to 40 percent, with Germany and Italy lagging even further behind.

This explains why investment capital is fleeing France, and the only thing they still produce is wine, cheese, and truffles.

On average, at least one millionaire leaves France every day to take up residence in more wealth-friendly nations, according to a government study.

At a time when France is struggling to stay competitive in an increasingly integrated world, business leaders say the country can't afford to make refugees of some of its most established business families. They include members of the Taittinger champagne empire, the Peugeot auto magnates and leading shareholders of dominant retailers Carrefour and Darty. Also going are members of a new generation of high-tech entrepreneurs.

Socialist leaders and some government officials argue that the rich are merely trying to shirk their social responsibilities by fleeing the country with their millions.

The wealth tax -- officially called the solidarity tax -- is collected on top of income, capital gains, inheritance and social security taxes. It's part of the reason France consistently ranks at the top of Forbes magazine's annual Tax Misery Index -- a global listing of the most heavily taxed nations.

"This tendency to take from the rich and give to the poor which is supposed to solve all the problems in France is ruining the country," said Alain Marchand, who left France six years ago and now has a London-based consulting business that helps relocate French business leaders and entrepreneurs in England and other countries. "That's an incredibly stupid and narrow-minded vision of economic life."


Eric Pinchet, author of a French tax guide, estimates the wealth tax earns the government about $2.6 billion a year but has cost the country more than $125 billion in capital flight since 1998.

In France, employers are required to pay social security taxes equal to 48 percent of each employee's salary. Labor laws make it difficult and costly to fire incompetent workers.

by KenTX on 05/09/2008 05:51:27 PM EST

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Facts are facts, the US gvt under Hoover cut the budget to maintain a budgetary surplus making the depression worse. So no the government was withdrawing from the economy during the period 1929-1933. Hoover was a neoclassical thinker who thought that the depression was actually a good thing, and that eventually (like in neverneverland) the economy would recover if left to its own devices. Obviously, that would NEVER happen as, I am going to get Keynesian here, expectations of future profit were nil thus so was investment. It was under FDR that the state got rid of the illogical neoclassical theory that the market would correct itself, reality check it never would. He increased demand by inserting the government into the economy and regulating the uncontrolled corporate oligarchy, so much so that they tried to overthrow him in a fascist coup in 1933. The only fool here is you my friend.

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 05/09/2008 04:55:10 PM EST

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So no the government was withdrawing from the economy during the period 1929-1933.... The only fool here is you my friend.

President Hoover signed into law the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act in 1930. If that is not intervention, then you are a fool, my friend.

by Twba on 05/09/2008 05:17:36 PM EST

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