American Moment | 16 comments (16 topical, 0 hidden)
Fine, what if we concede all of the above? (none / 0)
At this point, let's say the process plays out, and meteor from the sky never comes and Obama wins. Even if everything you say above is true, even if Obama is the love-child of CNN and the Washington Post and that 90% of the whites in the south and great plains states won't vote for him. Once he is the nominee what are you going to do?

Vote McCain? Really?

Nader?

There is no point for Obama supporters in countering the arguments presented by Lord Foul anymore. This is practically over, and soon it will be completely over. If the superdelegates do not decide Hillary is a better nominee, do you abandon the entire argument of our side? Do you prefer the destruction of the rule of law, concentration of power into the unitary executive, corporate-favored economic policies, socially conservative laws & judges & more wars? Do you want us to continue to alienate our allies and increase the numbers of our enemies through INSANE foreign policy?

I would just like you to consider what you will do if and when Hillary concedes, Lord Foul (and other Hillary supporters)?

by Weapon X on 05/10/2008 02:08:51 PM EST

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I agree (none / 1)

There is as much point in arguing against Lord Foul's Hillary arguments as thier is in arguing against Dodd, Biden, Richardson or Edwards supporters. (I was an Edwards supporter, he lost, he is a better General Election candidate than Hillary and Barak, I let it go).

by ProfRich on 05/11/2008 12:31:18 AM EST

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Wright & wrong (none / 1)
I didn't liken Obama's NC victory to an "American Moment"

I didn't refer to crushing primary victories that Obama didn't win.

You are right Obama will probably be the nominee

It doesn't change much though, Why?

If liberals continue to act like 16 year old school girls with a crush, it will hurt Obama. for example Clinton won nearly 50% of Dem votes, rubbing your so-called crushing victory in thier face is not wise. Calling them racists is not wise. Telling them they are not part of the new party and to get out is unwise. pretending his past is irrelevent is unwise.

AND UNDERESTIMATING THE REPUBLICANS IS SUICIDAL.

My personal opinion is that the SD should do their job and pick the best candidate to beat McCain. That is Clinton.

If they choose Obama fine. I will support him but many won't.

Have you considered the consequences of running the wrong candidate? What happens if McCain wins? What happens if Obama loses because of all of those racist white swing voters?


I remember 4 short years ago, liberal bitching and moaning about how their candidate wouldn't fight back. How he quit to soon.


4 years later and the Liberals ridicule the candidate who won't quit, they demonize the candidate who will fight back. They support the new type of politics, the same politics that cost them the election just 4 short years ago.

We never seem to learn.

by LORD FOUL on 05/11/2008 10:36:12 AM EST

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God damn the stupid (none / 0)
I don't mean u or even Hillary supporters, Lord Foul. I mean God damn the idea that we should always take care to support only those issues or nominate only those candidates who are "ok" by the misinformed, underinformed, brain-dead or just plain prejudiced. And Democrats have been painfully bad at judging who will be ok by those folks, anyway. We should really not factor "electability" into our voting decisions because we suck at it. Just vote for whoever the fuck you want to.

By the way, one of your arguments above was "Clinton won nearly 50% of Dem votes, rubbing your so-called crushing victory in thier face is not wise. Calling them racists is not wise. Telling them they are not part of the new party and to get out is unwise. pretending his past is irrelevent is unwise."

Of course, Obama won more than 50% of Dem voters, but rubbing Hillary's "victories" in their faces apparently is wise? Calling them elitists, sexist and "16 year old school girls with a crush" is wise?


Whatever, I will let all of you terrified little children remain terrified of the big bad Republican attack machine. Go and cower in the corner hoping we go along with what they want instead of what we want.

How about voting for what you believe in and for whomever you believe would do the best job?

At any rate, you had a very long answer and only one sentence was relevant to the questions I had posed above.

"If they choose Obama fine. I will support him but many won't."

Okay. That's really all that's relevant now. If you want to make your pitch to superdelegates to ignore the will of the people as well as the established rules, that is fine.  The rest of us aren't superdelegates and we should focus on McCain and the Republicans running for Congress. I've already wasted too much time on arguments I just said we should ignore until and unless they become relevant.

by Weapon X on 05/11/2008 04:54:34 PM EST

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Racer X (none / 0)
Electability: is really important. Do you like losing? How did you feel about Nadar supporters in 2000? I like Gravel (I think he's hysterical) I would not vote for him as President.

What did you call GWB when he claimed a mandate with 51% of the vote? What happens when you brag about "crushing" victories that you lost? What was factually acurate about that article? If Obama is the nominee he will need the other half of the Dem party. You can't seem to read and comprehend, the article claims crushing victories that never happened and correcting the facts is BAD? Did I call any one an elitist in this article? or sexist?

Yes I compared the article to a crush (read the article, consider the true facts, you will find that I was actually being polite)


You need to read the rules. The superdelegates were created for the express purpose of over-ruling the delegate count (in the event that the magic number was not reached). Also remember the delegate count is not necessarliy the "will of the people", Caucuses only represent a small (far left) minority of a states voters. Weighted districts (rewarding certain districts with extradelegates) is also not representative of the people.

I wonder how opposed you would be to MI & FLA, if the were NC & SC instead.

by LORD FOUL on 05/13/2008 04:55:24 PM EST

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Whose opposed to MI and FL? (none / 0)
Count 'em. Won't make a shits bit of difference.

by ProfRich on 05/13/2008 06:23:18 PM EST

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American Moment | 16 comments (16 topical, 0 hidden)