May I Politely Disagree with George Lakoff? | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 hidden)
i agree and disagree... (none / 0)
I agree that successful politicians do share a level of similarities in the areas you described. I believe that appealing to the emotinal rather than to the logical aspects of people makes for more success in politics. Where I'll disagree is the part about Reagan. Yes, he had a certain degree of "spunk" for a man his age and of his political leanings, but by no means could you compare the rabid following that Obama seemingly possesses to Reagans coalitions. That's really apples and oranges to me. Reagan had an established persona long before he became president. Obama has come out of the blue and people are literally having orgasms on the TV when he speaks. Reagan could have only dreamed of that sort of reception. Now I would not go as far as to say that Obama shares any of Hitler's delusions of genocide etc., but I am suspicious of what is really the driving force behind his meteoric rise. People are looking to cling to something that will cure their ills, and Obama thus far is playing them like a fiddle - to what end, I wonder? Thanks :)

by bobo1 on 06/21/2008 05:40:02 PM EST

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Analysis (none / 0)
"Where I'll disagree is the part about Reagan. Yes, he had a certain degree of "spunk" for a man his age and of his political leanings, but by no means could you compare the rabid following that Obama seemingly possesses to Reagans coalitions."

Have you watched Republican debates lately? Its a Reagan blow-job fest, who can out-Reagan the other guy. You are lacking in perspective, obviously right now the Obama train is chugging along pretty strong, but the Reagan train is already so well entrenched in the American body-politic its not even noticed. I think the Reaganistas are scarier than Obama ever is or will be, they have totally destroyed your country in the blind pursuit of personal gain masquerading as the "free market".

"Reagan had an established persona long before he became president. Obama has come out of the blue and people are literally having orgasms on the TV when he speaks."

Then Reagan actually has more akin with Hitler than Obama...a failed artist like Hitler he was...who commanded a ultra-conservative movement, a reactionary movement against what he and the neoconservative right considered to be "too much democracy", supported by corporate interests, and wanting to bring back the jingoistic nationalism of America after the defeat of Vietnam (WWI for Germany) to mystify the country from what was really happening. So...shall we play this game?

"I am suspicious of what is really the driving force behind his meteoric rise."

Its a two part story, Obama has a charismatic personality; secondly he represents the left in America that is decidedly not Bush! Nothing apart from a fascist dictatorship could be worse than Bush...the democratic people of the world have been played like a fiddle since who knows when, so to bring up that specter means little to nothing.

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 06/21/2008 06:23:56 PM EST

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Well.. (none / 0)
First of all thank you for your comments...

I was referring to when Reagan was elected way back in 1980. Since you werent even a gleam in your daddys eye yet then, let me inform you - Yes, Reagan had a following and a coalition of the NeoCons and the Christian right, but it did not nearly amass the support or popularity in such a short timespan that Obamas minion have risen in.

The "Blow Job Fests" you refer to in todays Republican debates is merely due to the fact that they (the Conservatives) have nothing else to latch onto to give their live any meaning. Reagan is all they have!!! They try to affix their beliefs into something that is tangible and real, when in fact I think we can agree that their agenda has been one of greed and mass takeover.

Point 2 -  I will throw back onto you by saying - "What then is Senator Obama doing?" Is he not trying to return us to what he considers "Sanity". Is he not yearning for the days of FDR and government control of industry (Like HealthCare and Oil) Is he not trying to reverse capitalism and corporatism in this country with his own brand of neoliberalism and socialism?


I think the problem that a lot of people have with Obama (myself included) is that we dont know what the Hell he plans to do to make this dream of "change and Government we can believe in" possible without radically restructuring our current way of life. Without going over to the other extreme of government control and raising taxes (on multiple levels) how in the Hell does he plan to change anything?

To point #3, if Bush is this short of a facist dictator, then why havent the Majority Dems in Congress removed him? Why hasnt there been open revolution if things are so brutally terrible? Our friend Ken asks this all the time - Why has Bush beat them at every turn?


Cause he's smart? No


Cause he's right? No


Cause hes done what every other wartime president has done, but has done so with the added scrutiny of the Media and the internet age? Yeah

If things are so bad under Bush, and Obama is gonna save us, dont you at least want to know whats coming?

Its kinda like that old story about the cow, the cat and the mouse. Have you heard it? Here it is (my recollection of it anyway):

The freezing little mouse is on the cold floor of the barn. Its waking along and all of the sudden, the cow takes a gigantic shit on it.

Now under the pile of shit, the mouse is warm and snug. Yeah it smells, but hes not freezing.

After a while, here comes the barn cat. He sees the mouses tail coming out from under the pile of Cow Shit. The cat sneaks up and snatches the mouse out of the pile and eats it.

The moral of the story, Nick:

1. Not everyone who shits on you is your enemy.

2 Not everyone who pulls you out of shit is your friend

We're the mouse, obviously. Bush is the cow, shitting on us as always - So who is Senator Obama in this story?

Thanks again for your time...

:)



by bobo1 on 06/21/2008 06:50:23 PM EST

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Re: (none / 0)
"The "Blow Job Fests" you refer to in todays Republican debates is merely due to the fact that they (the Conservatives) have nothing else to latch onto to give their live any meaning. Reagan is all they have!!!"

Its all they ever had, their policies have been prejudicing against so many for so long that they point to the grand-pa of the GOP to pacify the public. Reagan is really such a douche, and the facts point it out. But the fact that majority of Americans have a positive view of him, shows the emotive-rational responses of the human mind. Which is the same of Obama, do I think Obama has substance? Sure he does, but he is being elected on the wave of populism and reactionism against the uber-elitist, proto-fascist administration of Bush.

"Is he not trying to reverse capitalism and corporatism in this country with his own brand of neoliberalism and socialism?"

Huh? Do you really think that Obama is out to destroy capitalism? Secondly, less corporatism is better for democracy and living standards. Thirdly, I wonder if Obama will get rid of neoliberalism or at least begin the process, and I hope he does.

The reality is that if the GOP and McCain are allowed to fester in the White House for 4-8 more years, the country will be gone forever. Obama is offering the US that secular shift back to the left, which usually occurs when trickle-down economics fail (1932-2008) and government inaction becomes totally unsustainable ethically and economically. Does Obama represent special interests? All parties and candidates within a capitalist democratic system do, by default. The real question is, which special interests are worse, I'd wager the Republicans are worse.

"I think the problem that a lot of people have with Obama (myself included) is that we dont know what the Hell he plans to do to make this dream of "change and Government we can believe in" possible without radically restructuring our current way of life."

The more you American's postpone the inevitable changes needed to remain economically viable, the worse the correction will be. So suck it up, and take the medicine. The SUV, "McMansion" lifestyle is unsustainable and is coming to an end...thank god for that!

"To point #3, if Bush is this short of a facist dictator, then why havent the Majority Dems in Congress removed him? Why hasnt there been open revolution if things are so brutally terrible?"

Because the Democrats like the American people have lost the confidence in themselves. They cannot even dare to imagine another world anymore, and they have not been able to deal with the propaganda machine of the GOP. Open revolutions...things have to get A LOT worse for that to happen, and chances are a fascist dictatorship will happen before any actual revolution would take place, as it was planned to occur against FDR in 1933.

"If things are so bad under Bush, and Obama is gonna save us, dont you at least want to know whats coming? "

I have an idea of what is coming, greater governmental oversight, higher taxes for the rich and corporations, using the power of the state to redistribute income to less third world levels, and re-evaluation of America's role in the world...a MAJOR re-evaluation. Basically, a reversal of the worst elements of the Reagan Revolution...as a Canadian I really don't care about what he does about healthcare or other such issues...thats your concern.

"We're the mouse, obviously. Bush is the cow, shitting on us as always - So who is Senator Obama in this story?"

All I can say is...grow a pair and dive in.  

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 06/21/2008 07:29:01 PM EST

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May I Politely Disagree with George Lakoff? | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 hidden)