Victory for the Constitution! | 119 comments (119 topical, 0 hidden)
Burn Straw Man Burn!!!!!!!!!!! (none / 0)
"If we start worrying about people's right to not get killed by guns what would that do to gun sales?"

Rich please get the hell out of here with your straw man!  You can't put the cat back in the bag.  Gun poweder exists (blame the damn Chinese) and as long as it does, criminals will find a way to have guns.  You're almost as bad as Nick with his "communisim will work as long as it doesn't have to compete with capitalism" arguments. 


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/ uk_news/politics/2640817.st m


 

by alphasigmookie on 06/27/2008 02:56:39 PM EST

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I don't think you understand my point (none / 0)

I am just saying a massive driving factor behind the gun rights movement is gun manufacturers wanting to sell more guns.

Just like the gas and car companies pour millions into campaigning against public transportation. 

by ProfRich on 06/27/2008 03:08:23 PM EST

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No (none / 0)
Your point first point is that the avaliablity of guns causes people to die and that gun control can decrease the number of innocent people who are killed.

Your second argument is equally retarded of course.  The market cap of the two largest publicly traded firearms manufacturers in the US...Smith and Wesson and Ruger is less than $400 million!  They have virtually no lobbying power at all!  Gas and Car companies run into the hundreds of Billions!  Even then a large portion of their revenues come from sales to governments and police forces. 

The NRA on the other hand has an annual budget of ~$200 million all paid for by the over 4 million individual tax payers that rely on it to protect their constitutionally guaranteed right.  No Rich, the the power of the gun lobby does not come from wealthy business interests, it comes from millions of honest, hard working Americans who only want their country to live up to its promises. 

by alphasigmookie on 06/27/2008 03:45:23 PM EST

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Umm, no (none / 0)

That was Fred's point.  I just riffed off it.

As for the second part, if you really don't think the gun mfrs aren't behind the whole NRA movement, at least in part, I think you are woefully naive. 

But they can't be because the car and oil industry is much bigger?  Are you suggesting the car and oil industries aren't fucking us?  I would easily believe they are fucking us 100 times more than the gun folks are.

Although you could be arguing th gun people are in direct competition with the car and oil people but I really don't get that. 

by ProfRich on 06/27/2008 05:00:15 PM EST

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Excellent point Rich (none / 0)
Of course this is all about the profit motive of the gun makers.  Who do you think funds the NRA and the never ending fight against reality? 

The USA has more people in prison than any other nation, even more than China. 

The USA has a gun culture doesn't respect life. 

I'd have no problem if we did something like the Swiss do and have everyione who owns a gun have to do militia duty and training once a year to bear the responsibility of the right to keep and bear arms.

by Gregory Wonderwheel on 06/27/2008 04:02:04 PM EST

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Swiss (none / 0)
Again the swiss are a perfect example of how guns aren't the problem...people are the problem.  I would however have no problem having mandatory firearm safety training in high schools.  Ignorance is the true danger when it comes to firearms. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik i/Gun_politics_in_Switzerla nd

The total number of firearms in private homes is estimated minimally at 1.2 million to 3 million.<sup>
</sup>

Police statistics for the year 2006<sup> </sup>records 34 killings or attempted killings involving firearms, compared to 69 cases involving bladed weapons and 16 cases of unarmed assault. Cases of assault resulting in bodily harm numbered 89 (firearms) and 526 (bladed weapons). This represents a decline of aggravated assaults involving firearms since the early 1990s. Some 300 deaths per year are due to legally held army ordinance weapons, the large majority of these being suicides. The majority of gun crimes involving domestic violence are perpetrated with army ordinance weapons, while the majority of gun crime outside the domestic sphere involves illegally held firearms.


 

by alphasigmookie on 06/27/2008 05:19:50 PM EST

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Breaks my heart (none / 0)
If only Charles Whitman would have had firearm training...

by ProfRich on 06/27/2008 05:38:06 PM EST

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When (none / 0)

Did I say or even imply this?

"You're almost as bad as Nick with his "communisim will work as long as it doesn't have to compete with capitalism" arguments. "

 Like MFred said...prove it!
 

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 06/27/2008 05:50:15 PM EST

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creative licese (none / 0)
sorry it was your boy Trotsky that explicitly made the argument, but you basically agree with it based on our previous discussion on the topic when you said your plan for no private capital ownership would only work if the whole world adopted the system.  I can look it up for you if you want me too. 

Trotsky agreed that a new socialist state and economy in a country like Russia would not be able to hold out against the pressures of a hostile capitalist world, as well as the internal pressures of its backward economy. The revolution, Trotsky argued, must quickly spread to capitalist countries, bringing about a socialist revolution which must spread world-wide."

by alphasigmookie on 06/27/2008 06:04:06 PM EST

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Go ahead...I don't care (none / 0)
but don't quote me as if I said that I thought communism was this or that without proof...you are notorious for putting words into people's mouth's. So if you have the time, and I am more than certain you do-not a compliment-write a whole thesis of my arguments and theories...it'd be an interesting read, not for the objectivity but the manipulation...which you are accustomed too.

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 06/27/2008 06:14:45 PM EST

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Victory for the Constitution! | 119 comments (119 topical, 0 hidden)