OK, let's make a list: What has Obama flip-flopped on since the primary? | 16 comments (16 topical, 0 hidden)
RE: (none / 0)
Obama is more popular than McCain, thats a fact that cannot be denied. He is trouncing McCain in the national polls, and has a majority of the electoral college if the vote were held today. The composition of America is changing, the voters that are white racists are smaller than they used to be, I believe you are the one who is overestimating the power of the "white poor vote". The poor minority vote is more ample and leans much more towards the Democrats, mostly because they are not encumbered by false notions of America. I don't think Obama has to maintain teh "Change" and "Hope" message as much as he used to, that was geared mostly towards disaffected liberals. Obama has the liberal vote tied up, and now he has to appeal to the centre, he doesn't fear a desertion from the left...the left would be signing its own suicide note to give up on Obama and this golden opportunity. I think that Obama is a politician like any other, he wants to win. Where Obama did screw himself is by saying he is different from other politicians, and acted and spoke differently...now he is becoming more "mainstream", but does this mean once in office he will kowtow to the centre like he is now? I hope not.

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 07/03/2008 08:44:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Who said anything about racists? (none / 0)
How come when I or anyone mentions white voters, Obama supporters start dropping words like "racist" into the conversation? I'm sure Obama doesn't have the KKK vote, so why do you bring it up? The majority of voters (especially undecided voters) are white lower/middle class. That is an undisputable fact. I'm not saying that McCain wins in a popularity contest - he doesn't because quite frankly he's a creepy guy... But that doesn't matter in our system - if McCain can convince the majority of undecided voters that Obama is not trustworthy or otherwise, he has a chance of winning. Yes, Obama has the black vote and the Liberal votes tied up, but what about the other 65 percent? Surely you don't think Obama can win just on his Lefty merits alone? Even Bill Clinton needed Perot to beat Bush in 1992. As it stands, Obama SHOULD have a cakewalk this election - why hasn't that happened? I think the chickens are getting counted before they're hatching! As for your electoral maps, if you are refering to those ones you posted a while back, you are dreaming - show me some more current projections! :)

by bobo1 on 07/03/2008 09:21:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Step one... (none / 0)
"How come when I or anyone mentions white voters, Obama supporters start dropping words like "racist" into the conversation?"

Because we aren't stupid, "poor/working class white voter" means racist, if it didn't then "white" wouldn't be used. If you are going to use code, please know what the code means. At least with Rev. Wright and Rev. Hagee, they expose their bigotry and vitriol in a un-obstructed way.

"But that doesn't matter in our system - if McCain can convince the majority of undecided voters that Obama is not trustworthy or otherwise, he has a chance of winning."

Wait...so substance does matter now?

"Yes, Obama has the black vote and the Liberal votes tied up, but what about the other 65 percent? "

How many of those 65% are going to vote? I think McCain has a bigger problem with the conservative base than Obama has with any constituency. The real question is with McCain, not Obama. It seems as if the GOP doesn't want to win this yr, figuring let the Dems take control when the economy tanks (a crisis they the GOP created). Think about it...

"Obama SHOULD have a cakewalk this election - why hasn't that happened? "

You got a time machine...? Sounds like it.

"As for your electoral maps, if you are refering to those ones you posted a while back, you are dreaming - show me some more current projections! :)"

Current projections are even more advantageous to Obama....check out the link I posted in an earlier post.

Where's the argument here Bobo?

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 07/03/2008 10:00:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Just one more thing... (none / 0)

"Even Bill Clinton needed Perot to beat Bush in 1992."

 Exit polling indicated that Perot voters would have split their votes fairly evenly between Clinton and Bush had Perot not been in the race, and an analysis by FairVote - Center for Voting and Democracy suggested that, while Bush could have won more electoral votes with Perot out of the race, he would not have gained enough to reverse Clinton's victory. Clinton also led Bush in all polls after the Democratic Convention after Ross Perot's initial exit in two way races, and never lost the lead for the rest of the campaign.

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 07/03/2008 10:09:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]
bobo (none / 0)
Any criticism of Barack Obama whatsoever is automatically labeled "racist".

I can show you hundreds of examples of people in this forum calling George Bush a "coke head", and Rush Limbaugh an "oxycotin cowboy".

But when I quoted Barack Obama, in his own words, describing himself as a "junkie", and admitting to snorting blow, smoking dope, and hitting the crack pipe, the natives went fukking nuts!

They can diminish and impugn the military service of John McCain. They can make thousands of jokes about his age. But if anyone quotes Barack Obama detailing his history of substance abuse problems, it creates more problems then standing in the middle of Mecca in the middle of Ramadan, and screaming that Mohammed is a cocksucker!
mohammed is a cocksucker!

by KenTX on 07/03/2008 10:14:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Err... (none / 0)

" Any criticism of Barack Obama whatsoever is automatically labeled "racist"."

Wrong, I critcize Obama myself, its not the criticism of Obama that is considered racist, its the use of the CODE's that disguise racism into a semi-legitimate discourse. "White Working Class" invokes an image, of undereducated, racist, trailer-park types...to deny that is to deny reality. Again, I'm trying to explain something to Ken...I'm the real idiot here.  

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 07/03/2008 10:24:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Nick... (none / 0)
There is no argument - when I say 65 percent, I'm talking about the 65 percent OF VOTERS who are 1) not black or of any other Obama minority following group or 2) not Liberal in the sense of the word you understand. Being Canadian, you should know about ethnic majorities - here in the US, what you call "trailer park racist trash" is still the majority of the population about 70-30 to the non - that's our voting base that's who Obama needs to reach for, that's why he is shifting positions - that's all I was saying - it was you who threw the "racist" bullshit into the mix. Stay up north where you can stay insulated from the realities on the ground here in MY country! :)

by bobo1 on 07/03/2008 10:35:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Plz... (none / 0)
"There is no argument - when I say 65 percent, I'm talking about the 65 percent OF VOTERS who are 1) not black or of any other Obama minority following group or 2) not Liberal in the sense of the word you understand."

I don't see much of an argument (which you know it or not, you are presenting) considering that Obama is turning traditional GOP states pink and purple. Sure he won't win in Appalachia (wonder why? do you REALLY wonder why?), but he can win outside of the racist areas...yes they are racist. America's history has been a dialectic of race more than anything else, America is still not over it.

"here in the US, what you call "trailer park racist trash" is still the majority of the population about 70-30 to the non - that's our voting base that's who Obama needs to reach for, that's why he is shifting positions"

No, that constituency is relegated to areas where Democrats hardly ever win, at least since 1980; what is there to lose for Obama here? He can pander all he wants to these ppl, he will not win them over, they still think he's a Muslim and swore on the Qu'ran. The new electoral map is not about race or working class, its about education, rural/urban divide, and the inequalities brought forth by globalization and neoliberalism in the US. Reference my thread here for more info:

"it was you who threw the "racist" bullshit into the mix."

Nope, you did...if not...why bring up "white" aspect of the working class? There is a racialist aspect to your code, its not my problem if you are ignorant of the meanings of your own rhetoric.

"Stay up north where you can stay insulated from the realities on the ground here in MY country! :)"

Real rich coming an Amerikan, how many countries have you invaded and democracies has your country overthrown regardless of the "realities" on the ground in those countries? Don't even try that BS, I'm just returning the favour.

Blog: http://perspectivos.blogspo t.com/

by Nick86 on 07/03/2008 11:31:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
got news for u. (none / 0)
ur in mexico HA...

by Bungle on 07/04/2008 06:10:03 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Delusionland! (none / 0)

First, I don't recall anyone mentioning race (at least to call you racist) when you went on the drug smear thing.

Second, all I did was point out Obama never said he did crack.  That was something you inferred and then declared he admitted.

And third, Rush Limbaugh was a junkie drug addict like, RIGHT NOW!  These aren't youthful indiscretions.   Its the prime of his fat bloated worthless meaningless career!  Oxycontin and raping 12 year old Caribbean girls.  That is how he spends his leisure time.

by ProfRich on 07/03/2008 11:21:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]

OK, let's make a list: What has Obama flip-flopped on since the primary? | 16 comments (16 topical, 0 hidden)