Your sibling analogy doesn't work. You cannot compare Hamas killing Israeli civilians with rockets to getting beaten up by a younger brother. In the former, people actually die. They don't come back to life. At the very least, they suffer permanent injuries. In the latter, the brother may get heavily bruised, but the bruises aren't permanent. He will eventually heal and continue with his life as though it never happend. Nobody dies. Also, the older brother has the choice to defend himself or retaliate. The Israeli civilians do not. Their government makes that choice for them. Any time you have one person making decisions for another person that affect their health or wellbeing, things get alot more complicated.

Although some changes could be made to make the analogy better, such as having the younger brother attack the older one with a weapon so that the damage caused is permanent, fundamentally, your analogy will still fall apart because it anthropomorphizes a country. It treats the entirety of Israel as an indivisible entity when the key issue you're trying to address (the bombing of Israeli civilians) is something that affects its parts.

by mechanicalMonkey on 01/07/2009 01:12:50 AM EST

to destroy Hamas is primarily a political decision by the party currently in power, the Israeli people do have a choice due to the fact that they live in a democracy and can vote out the people that made the decision to attack Hamas and invade Gaza.

by gatekeeper50 on 01/07/2009 09:52:20 AM EST

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the relevance of your point to mine depends on whether the older brother in the analogy represents the indirectly applicable collective will of the Israeli people or the directly applicable will of the Israeli government. If the latter is the case, then although the Israeli people do get to choose who makes the choice for them, the government still ultimately makes that choice. If the former is the case (which, I concede, seems more likely on rereading), then the people getting injured or killed still may not agree with the collective decision of their fellow Israelis. Either way, we have a situation where some people are making a decision for others that affect their health or wellbeing. This is very different than the situation with the brothers in which the person who makes the decision is the only one affected by its consequences.

by mechanicalMonkey on 01/07/2009 12:37:18 PM EST

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it would be the directly applicable will of the Israeli government, whereas the brother seems to represent the indirectly applicable will of the Israeli people.  When communities grow to the size of nation/states and require governments with bureaucracies then the collective will is often subordinated to the decisions of the bureaucrates unless those government bureaucracies are turned over to private businesses whose primary goal is to make a profit.  That is where this nation stands with the republicans selling out to the greed of private contractors working for the DoD and our health industry.  Obama, IMHO, will want to reign in those impulses and take the profit incentive out of both defense and health care.
     The current Israeli governement, it appears, has politics rather than private greed driving it to the extremes we now see in Gaza.  I don't think the older brother would break both his younger brother's legs, arms, and neck while holding his head over a candle just to make a point.  The father (Israeli govt.), though, should be held accountable by the collective will of the larger community (ie. UN, NATO, Arab League, or other world body) and it is that entity (perhaps only public opinion) that will have to eventually prevail.  I hope and believe Barack Obama will lead in that effort on January 20th.

by gatekeeper50 on 01/07/2009 02:45:39 PM EST

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Lets try a different one.  The Middle East is a biker bar.  Israel is the biggest, meanest, baddest biker in the bar.  The Palestinians are a 98 pound weakling wannabe.  They come in and sit at the end of the bar talking trash, that the big biker doesn't have the right to be in the bar, and the next time they come in, the floor will be paved with the big bikers blood.  Eventually they screw their courage up and go start punching the biker in the arm.  Initially, the big biker pushes them away gruffly.  When they immediately come back, the big biker pounds the 98 pound weakling into a pulp.  If you objectively witnessed this scene, who would you blame?  Fact is, sometimes you get what you ask for.  It is tragic that all of Gaza suffers because of Hamas' actions, but the Palestinians did elect these terrorists. 

by raynjuls on 01/09/2009 12:49:05 PM EST

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