Same sex marriage | 83 comments (83 topical, 0 hidden)
Again, facts are facts... (none / 0)
Doesn't matter if you like the argument or not. These things are just true.

Also, hypothalamus reduction... No, dude, not gonna happen. We're not capable of that, and there's nothing to make us think that that would turn gay men straight. The hypothalamus has nothing to do with sexual orientation. I only bring it up because it's an indication that sexual orienation is decided by biological factors.

Technically speaking, homosexuality is a disorder, but so what? Not all mistakes are a bad thing. Not everything needs to be put in order. It's a natural disorder but it doesn't result in anything bad.

It's not like say cancer is natural. It's totally different.... because cancer actually hurts people.

My friend, you're fighting an up-hill battle. Of course there are exceptions to the rules, but as a general rule, these physical differences tell us that it's not a choice to be gay, because you can't choose the size and shape of your hypothalamus nor your ring finger.

by tlrdevere on 11/21/2009 02:43:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Nobody denies the facts (none / 0)
Just the meaning of them and the implications, and again I have to add that I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Being gay hurts these people in a way, because it prevents them from having kids of their own. That's something negative.

This means that when your argument against discriminating gays is that you can't do that because being gay is natural you just make homophobes switch their arguments.

Then they don't "discriminate against gays" they "only search for a cure". So these poor gays can have relationships that may result in kids of their own. Maybe electro-shocks could help. At least they could make people pretend not to be gay anymore.

The better argument against discrimination is that they hurt nobody and do nothing immoral.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 11/21/2009 03:18:34 PM EST

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The implications are simple (none / 0)
We know what the implications are. It is primarily biological factors that decide sexual orientation.

What prevents them from giving birth to kids is being male, not being gay. They can still raise kids via adoption...

Homophobes will never find a cure, because there is none. It's not psychological.

Even if they tried to manipulate biology, it will be decades before they'll be successful. It will take time for the older generations to die out.

The BEST argument is the truth, and that's what I'm telling.

by tlrdevere on 11/21/2009 05:02:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The sun is really hot!!! (none / 1)
"The BEST argument is the truth, and that's what I'm telling. "

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 11/21/2009 05:25:56 PM EST

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Now wasn't that a great argument? (none / 1)
Something being the truth doesn't always mean that it has any implications on how we act or how we should act.

When we are talking about gay adoption it really doesn't matter whether it is a choice.

There is no reason to assume that being gay is in any way immoral, unless you believe that the planet is seriously underpopulated and it's everybodies responsibility to fuck so we can raise the population to the needed level.

"What prevents them from giving birth to kids is being male, not being gay. They can still raise kids via adoption..."

Wow, you really got me there, that devaluates the whole argument that they can't pass on their genetic information.

"Homophobes will never find a cure, because there is none. It's not psychological.

Even if they tried to manipulate biology, it will be decades before they'll be successful. It will take time for the older generations to die out."

That it's not psychological doesn't make it less likely that they can find a "cure". If anything the opposite. And it defenitly can't keep them from looking for "cures" and trying them. Adopting a child is not the same as being the biological father. Why shouldn't gay people be given the opportunity to father a kid in a natural way? When someone has low sperm count he doesn't get told it's no problem. You can adopt. No doctors are looking for a cure. Even though it is biological.

Therfore the fact that it is biologically determined is a bad argument, even though it is true. It still has nothing to do with the issue. Let's assume pedophelia is biological, does that make it correct?
To anyone reading the last sentence: I'm not saying being gay is like being a pedo. The reasons why you can't compare these two "preferences" are ethical, not biological.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 11/21/2009 05:50:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
who says homosexuality is a "disorder"? (none / 0)
Is being left handed a "disorder" ?  Homosexuality is no more a disorder than heterosexuality. I was born gay  therefore its perfectly natural.

What makes anyone think gay men would WANT to be straight?

I like who I am.

Deciding what color shirt to wear is a choice... being gay is not  the idea that  you can choose your orientation is insane.

A conservative believes nothing should be done for the first time

by C D on 11/28/2009 10:54:16 AM EST

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That argument is still rubbish (none / 1)
"I was born gay  therefore its perfectly natural."

Still the only important thing should be if you hurt someone who is not consenting. Assuming you don't just keep on going. I wish a higher percentage of guys would be gay. Or i would be gay. Both would probably result in more action for me.
Maybe that's the reason for discrimination. Secretly we envy you.

Sorry again, but once again you force me to use outrageous degrading arguments. It is just the fact that I really hate that "it's natural" line of argumentation.

Do you think pedophiles have chosen their orientation?
Or were they born like that and therefore it's ok?

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 11/28/2009 12:34:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
And THAT is rubbish as well (none / 1)
Do you think pedophiles have chosen their orientation?
Or were they born like that and therefore it's ok?

Homosexuality doesn't infringe on anyone else's rights. Pedophilia does. You're comparing something harmless (like being born with a certain color hair) to something anomalous (like being born with a Gatling gun for an arm).

by OneHitKill on 11/29/2009 03:37:01 AM EST

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Please tell me! (none / 1)
What is the relevance of being born that way?

You admitt, that it does not mean it's a good thing, so why drag on about it?

It is totally irrelevant.

When you say, that being gay is ok, because gays were born this way, than you have to accept, that pedophiles were born this way, too.

Than you have to argue that they don't infringe on anybody's rights.
I said the argument should be that they don't infringe on anybodies rights and everything else is irrelevant.

Why construct an argument that can so easily be misused and is totally irrelevant?

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 11/29/2009 05:43:40 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Is this why your name is "opposition?" (none / 1)
When you say, that being gay is ok, because gays were born this way, than you have to accept, that pedophiles were born this way, too.

I don't have to do anything. I'm not a robot. I judge things individually. So should everyone. Even if I concede that being born gay doesn't in and of itself make homosexuality "okay," I still don't see any meaningful evidence that it's "wrong," so you can't call my argument irrelevant without re-examining your own.

Pedophilia and homosexuality have been determined incomparable by modern society. Catch up to the rest of us already.

by OneHitKill on 11/29/2009 07:19:12 AM EST

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You have to die!!! (none / 1)
We all have to die, except for the robots!;)

If your argument is, that we shouldn't discriminate against gay people, because they were born this way, than your argument is irrelevant and stupid!
The only reason, why we shouldn't discriminate against them or try to "cure" them is because they don't hurt anybody and don't want to be "cured".
Being born gay has nothing to do with it.

I compare whatever I want. When you say we shouldn't discriminate against gays, because they were born this way I wonder why you think we should discriminate against pedophiles. They were born this way, too.

Then you have to go back to they don't hurt anyone and I said that is the first and only reason.

Saying we shouldnt discriminate against them because they were born this way is as sensible as saying we shouldn't discriminate against them, because they use more beauty products than straight men.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 11/29/2009 11:09:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]
opposition = brick wall (none / 1)
If your argument is, that we shouldn't discriminate against gay people, because they were born this way, than your argument is irrelevant and stupid!

That isn't my argument. My argument is that we shouldn't discriminate against gay people because we gain nothing by doing so. Comparing them to pedophiles achieves nothing except making the world believe that you are hell-bent on defending pedophiles (and, by extension, that maybe you're also a pedophile yourself).

by OneHitKill on 11/29/2009 06:50:47 PM EST

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Partly agree (none / 0)
I agree with your basic argument, and keep asking why people always bring this weak it's natural argument.

PS: Seems like all the people who compared Bush with the Nazis were hell-bent on defending the Nazis, and by extension maybe Nazis themselves.
Oh my God! Beck was right all the time!
That fuckin Nazi.
Now I confused myself.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 11/29/2009 11:38:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Nonsense (none / 1)
PS: Seems like all the people who compared Bush with the Nazis were hell-bent on defending the Nazis, and by extension maybe Nazis themselves.

That doesn't even come close to making sense.

by OneHitKill on 11/30/2009 05:03:30 AM EST

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Same sex marriage | 83 comments (83 topical, 0 hidden)