It's like you can't run for office here if you're not delusional. If you recognize and use science "too much," you're not fit to serve as a representative in government.
Magic underpants trumps science every time.
Real fine edumacation system we have here in these United States of America.
Thanks a lot, gawd---good job.
by
kurd55 on
03/10/2009 12:41:30 PM EST
The scene: Navy Boot Camp
The Place: San Diego, CA
The Time: May 1970
"Here, fill out this form. It's for your dogtags." I filled in my name, date of birth, and then the space for religion: NONE. Two days later, two petty officers approached me and one said, "You have to change this. You can't say none. If you don't care, you have to put No Preference." "Why?" "So if you die, they'll know which kind of priest to say the final words." "I don't want any final words from a priest." "Don't make a case out of this, just put No Preference."
So, to get along, I went along. I had escaped the draft by running to the Navy, and I wasn't going to make a federal case out of it. After all, I had been selected as Recruit Chief Petty Officer (RCPO), and I was supposed to set an example after all. The following Sunday, I did not attend either the Catholic or Protestant services. The Company Commander asked me the next day, "why?" "I didn't have any desire to do so." "You have to set an example," so I asked which one was earliest. "Catholic," he said, "why do you ask?" "That way I can get to the basketball court an hour before the protestants." Sundays were set aside for religious services and athletics, so I figured if I had to be bored to tears for an hour of mass I could at least get some extra court time in. Once out of boot camp though, I was never harrased about not attending any services, and it wasn't until I got out eight years later that I had to put up with an office fundy. He hated my "socratic method" because he rarely could answer the questions I posed, so he often left after a few minutes quite frustrated. He was later let go because of his child rearing methods; you know --- spoil the rod spoil the child; it reached the level of child abuse.
So what about now? Agnostic is the closest I can come to looking at dictionary definitions. If I were asked, "do I believe in god?", I would have to reply, "what definition of god do you ask?" If you define god as infinite and therefore undefinable, both larger than possibly humanly conceivable while simultaneously smaller than the same; all knowing, omnipotent, omnipresent, not anthropomorphic (not speaking to humans or shaped like a human) as unknowable to a human as the flora inside your gut knows you, its host --- then I might partially agree to a belief in that concept. But, it would be the thought in my head which cannot be the same as the thought in yours, so it would not be a belief in what you may believe in. It can't be contained in the human mind because it is infinite, so therefore certainly can't be contained in a book. It is all that has happened, all that is happening now, and all that will happen in every universe and dimension that did exist, does exist, or will exist.
Religion is a social control and churches are social clubs. They are good for the weak of mind who need an external force controlling their actions and defining their morals, but human evolution has given each of us the ability to define morals, ethics, good and bad and structure our lives to live within a framework that works well for ourselves as individuals, together as families, tribes, communities, and nations. Until the hand of religion is removed from the controls, humanity's evolution will be thwarted and we will be mostly stagnate, waiting for that next punctuation of the equilibrium in a very small place in an infinite space.
by
gatekeeper50 on
03/10/2009 03:38:15 PM EST
I was ecstatic when Obama gave a shout-out to us non-believers during his Inaugural Address.
However, it only makes sense, considering that the non-religious in America are more numerous than the 3 latter religious groups he named -Jews, Muslims, Hindus- COMBINED.
Thanks for this post, Cenk.
by
CarolynRock on
03/10/2009 03:43:59 PM EST
I just want to point out that even in the most nonreligious countries, things are going very well. Our economies are stable, the crime rates are low, democratic and rationalistic values are widely appreciated, people have healthcare and top grade education, and no one thinks anyone is going to burn in hell. Even among the religious, there's none of the divisive talk you find in fundamentalist groups. People don't have to define themselves as part of a religion - they're just themselves, living their lives with love and compassion towards their fellow humans (and animals).
And practically the only people who don't believe in evolution around here are, ironically, American missionaries.
Our state isn't even secular. We have a queen and a state church. It doesn't proselytize, for the record, or spread religion in any way. We don't have laws against prayer in school. We just don't think religion is a big deal. It's not something to recoil against, even foreign religions, but it's also not something to take seriously.
My point is... Don't let anyone tell you that America wouldn't be strong without religion. In fact, I think the United States could achieve amazing things if religion was put on the sidelines and philosophy, tolerance, and rational argument was embraced as fully as did the founding fathers. And I like to think Europeans and Americans could understand each other better and cooperate equally on a number of issues. That's why we like Obama so much. We trust him to put earthly, human need first instead of being the preacher-in-chief.
by
Sorenzo on
03/11/2009 09:41:28 AM EST
