Ron Paul "Awesome"? Are you out of your mind? | 57 comments (57 topical, 0 hidden)
Anarchy Lite (none / 1)

(and/or old people)

by OneHitKill on 03/26/2009 09:01:06 PM EST

Deep Thoughts (none / 1)

and little thinking. The government no more controls your life than I do.

The the fact that you cant run roughshod over the backs of your fellow citizens isn't a lack of freedom, it is the mores of the society in which you live.

Conceding to your statement for the purpose of making a point; if by some miracle a libertarian government is elected in these United States, you will simply be trading one form of control for another.

Every system has its controls.  Personally, I'd rather turn the nobs than wait for an "invisible hand" .


 

 

by MRFred on 03/27/2009 10:29:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Freedom = less government (none / 0)
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson

"Give me liberty, or give me death." - Patrick Henry

The entire ideal of libertarianism is freedom, which means limited government.  This concept is what our country was founded on, and why we broke away from the tyranny of the Brittish.  If you read the words of many of our founding fathers, then you'll find how similar they are to those of Ron Paul's and many libertarians today.  We don't want to control others.  We want people to run their own lives however they want as long as it is not taking away the rights of thers.  It's that simple. 


by bandito on 03/27/2009 11:08:37 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Simplistic (none / 0)
entire ideal of libertarianism is freedom

"Ideal" being the operative word.

Out of context quotes from the founders aside the question is still pertinent.

How, exactly, does the government control your life?

by MRFred on 03/27/2009 11:35:05 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Freedom no longer popular? (none / 0)
Wow, I guess I'm not surprised that freedom is no longer a popular idea. 

How does the government control our life? Hmm, let's see:

Our body - we can't choose what we want to put into it due to prohibitions by the FDA and the government's War on Drugs.

Our money - Can you say the IRS? The income tax? You can "choose" not pay taxes if you don't want, but of course the thugs from the IRS will come ruin your life.

Our property - Think you own your land?  Have you ever tried NOT paying property taxes? 

Our guns - Dictators love gun control, check out China, North Korea, Russia during Stalin....

Our right to travel - Drivers licenses

Our partner - Marriage licenses

Our privacy - Patriot Act, FISA

Our Habeas Corpus - Military Commisions Act of 2006

Our LIFE - The selective service? The Draft? Now we have the Civilian National Security Force.  Very Orwellian and scary IMO.


If you keep redrawing your line, allowing the government to take away more freedoms in exchange for "safety," eventually you'll find yourself cornered up against the wall.  It always starts out so innocently and seemingly harmless....

"...first (they came) for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . and by that time there was no one left to speak up." - German Pastor Martin Niemoller, about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power.


by bandito on 03/27/2009 01:01:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Save the high school debating tactics (none / 0)

and your list of horribles for Bobo.

The question was simple and to the point,

How, exactly, does the government control your life? 

Not one of the things you listed meets the standard you established

We don't want to control others.  We want people to run their own lives however they want as long as it is not taking away the rights of others. 

Reasonable arguments could be made for each and every point meeting the  "as long as it is not taking away the rights of others. " criteria.

Take drugs. Your body is and remains your problem.  "Drugs" assuming illegal drugs, ,is a societal control codified by law. This is a "Christian Nation" after all and when drugs were declared illegal an overtly racist one. Drugs were perfectly legal until we, meaning the older white folks discovered those ever so crafty black folks using them at in the early 20th century...and they moved to the whites kids , who just had to have fun too. Then the Temperance types, who were beating the drum for years held sway.

You have a problem with drug laws...go after the Focus on The Family.

Your guns? No one I am aware of is restricting you right to own guns. If so which guns? Where? Not in Florida where a cop was shot yesterday with , among other things, 50 cal sniper rifle...does that meet the not taking away the rights of others part yet?

Has FISA personally impacted your rights? If so how? When? IF you talking privacy right there are many constitutional strict constructionists who revere Patrick Henry that would argue it doent exist.

 

So could you give us examples of how the things you listed directly impact your freedom?

by MRFred on 03/27/2009 01:55:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Grade school debate tactics (none / 0)
You have a problem with drug laws...go after the Focus on The Family.

Focus On The Family did not break down the door of Mayor Cheye Calvo's home and shoot his dogs to death. It was the government that controlled the life and death of those dogs and the lives of their owners during that drugs raid.

by Twba on 03/27/2009 03:30:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
TWBAs grade school memories... (none / 0)

Indirectly they did. The government executes the policies of its elected leadership.

Organizations like Focus on the Family and other evangelical political action groups use their political influence to block any meaningful reform of the US drug laws  They view drugs as further evidence of the "moral decay" of the USA. A perception that is absolutely essential to them to continue to build their political movement. FOS and other connected groups insist instead on , yes even here, "abstinence" and of course getting "tough" on crime.

The real crime here, besides animal cruelty, was that to date, no one on the police force has been disciplined ( that I can find on the intertubes)

So, tell us TWBA, in your grade school Thanksgiving pageant, were you Myles Standish...or the turkey?

by MRFred on 03/27/2009 07:49:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yes, we cannabis (none / 0)
Organizations like Focus on the Family and other evangelical political action groups use their political influence to block any meaningful reform of the US drug laws

And they also use their political influence to keep abortion illegal. Oh, maybe their influence isn't very great.

Since FOTF didn't support Obama and probably never will, why doesn't Obama support marijuana legalization? Who is he afraid to cross?

by Twba on 03/31/2009 11:20:16 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Thanks for the complement... (none / 0)

about.

Thanks for the complement.

But I would  have done it even without the benifits...which are grossly overstated by the way. 

There is nothing remotely cradle to grave about it.

I only lived in Govt housing once...and they forced me to do that. At the time the civilian overbuilt in that particular town...houses were cheap.  When you do, you forfeit your housing allowance...basically rent.

I had health care...but you cant expect a fighting force to be effective without that capability.

My family had what amounted to work provided health insurance. After 1972 they never saw another military doctor.The difference is that your work provided health insurance was much better. Ours paid at the the Medicare rate and only to approved doctors. We had to carry supplemental coverage.

I don't get free health care as a retiree contrary to popular belief. I pay about 3500 a year now...still not as high as some...but not free.

If you think there is job security in the military...think again.  Officers and enlisted men are forced out at the tune of about 1/4 of the force very year due to tenure and promotion policies, that can be changed by decree of the force Secretaries.

On the up side, I had big, complicated machines to play with. Cant beat that. Nothing better than watching  a 1 billion dollar ship head down the channel based on your work.

 

Back to the subject. I am amused when I hear a citizen grouse about how the 'government " controls his or her life. When I ask , exactly how the "government" controls their life I usually get some nebulous description of what the founders said...overwrought descriptions of "freedom", quotes from Braveheart and other stuff.

So Ken If you please, tell me how the goverment controls your life.

by MRFred on 03/27/2009 07:07:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Get real (none / 0)
Our privacy - Patriot Act, FISA

Sure, that was a real concern when Chimpie McChimpler Bushitler was president, but now that the right man is in office, you have nothing to fear. If you haven't done anything wrong, why are you so concerned with privacy? What do you have to hide?

by Twba on 03/27/2009 03:33:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Bullshit (none / 0)

and that wasn't question.

You, as expected, you delivered the typical exaggerated Republican political diatribe against the Democratic Party, and dodged the question.

Thanks for playing. Your parting gifts are copies of Das Kapital and The Fountainhead. You might want to read them.

You simply are after a tax cut...doesn't matter from whom.

The question was;

How, exactly, does the government control your life? 

You claim "the goverment" controls your life, that your freedom has been somehow compromised. How so?

by MRFred on 03/27/2009 01:19:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yes - Think Somalia (none / 0)
There are places on this planet where government has collapsed, where there is no law. They are not pretty places. Only idiots do not want government where there is more than 100 people.

by jrolsen on 03/27/2009 06:04:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Socialism (none / 0)
Socialism

by bandito on 04/05/2009 05:12:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Ron Paul "Awesome"? Are you out of your mind? | 57 comments (57 topical, 0 hidden)