Cenk, where you go wrong on 9-11. | 65 comments (65 topical, 0 hidden)
a little occams razor here please. (1.25 / 4)
"Paraphrase: If it was an inside job, wouldn't it have made a million times more sense to just blow up a building and not complicate things insanely with planes and so many variables?"

Is the concept Cheney simply took advantage of learning of an EXISTING plan by Al Qaida and then arranged for a few orders to be issued that would smooth the way for it to succeed beyond your comprehension?

by spigzone on 06/08/2009 11:49:49 PM EST

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Funny (5.00 / 3)

Is the concept of turning people off with condescending phrasing beyond your comprehension?

;)

And no, the evil conspiracy is not the simplest explanation.

by Tom Hanc on 06/08/2009 11:54:35 PM EST

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WTF? (1.33 / 3)
"Is the concept of turning people off with condescending phrasing beyond your comprehension?
;)

And no, the evil conspiracy is not the simplest explanation." 

What the fuck IS it with people? I suggested applying occams razor to the conspiracy theories. It's not necessary for Cheney or whomever to have been part of PLANNING the attack, just to take advantage of it. Since the DIA task force definitely EXISTED and if it found out about the 9-11 plot that information would have went straight to Cheney, who would immediately KINOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT, AND since ALL the material of that task force was subsequently destroyed utterly contrary to all procedure or anything remotely resembling common sense, occams razor says, IF there was a conspiracy, cheney finding out about the 9-11 plot and arranging to help it succeed to create a 'shock' doctrine situation is by far the likliest scenario. 

YOUR response to my mention of occams razor in this contect was ...  

"a little occams razor here please. (none / 1)

"Paraphrase: If it was an inside job, wouldn't it have made a million times more sense to just blow up a building and not complicate things insanely with planes and so many variables?

Think about it, instead of scaring people out of flying, anyone working in a building would've been/would be terrified. It's much simpler and makes a hell of a lot more sense if the goal is to scare people to grab power and oil, start wars, make money, etc."

WTF?

by spigzone on 06/09/2009 01:19:54 AM EST

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No (5.00 / 4)

The more plausible/simpler explanation is that they took advantage of 9/11 after it happened. They took a terrible event and used it to push various agendas (some of which they had planned from the start, like invading Iraq), much to the detriment of our country.

Cheney was made head of the counter terrorism task force in January of 2001, but he didn't even hold a meeting until Sept. 4th of that year. You can argue that meeting was about 9/11, but I think these factoids just add to image of incompetence.

Not that they were completely incompetent, don't get me wrong. But in some ways they clearly were.

by Tom Hanc on 06/09/2009 01:29:20 AM EST

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That's why it's called a book suppository (4.00 / 3)
"Random poo poo" is funny. It's almost a band name.

by OneHitKill on 06/09/2009 10:23:07 AM EST

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That doesn't prove anything (none / 0)

What does it matter how he got the job?   If his job was conveniently located someone could have taken advantage of that simple fact.

That being said, I do think it was Oswald's rifle that did the shooting, although I'm not totally convinced he was the trigger man.   It wouldn't have been that hard for someone to show up, use his rifle, and then slip out the building without being seen.  It's possible he knew something was going to happen and someone was going to try to kill Kennedy but didn't realize he was being set up as the fall guy.   He did say that he was only a "patsy" after they arrested him.

by bfaul on 06/09/2009 05:45:16 PM EST

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if ignorance is bliss, you're in nirvana (1.00 / 3)
"And the thousands of FBI and ATF agents who are still investigating as well as the indictment, trial and conviction of Mohammad al-Qahtani the "20th hijacker" - that just didn't happen?"

http://www.washingtonpost.c om/wp-dyn/content/article/2 009/01/13/AR2009011303372.h tml

"We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani," said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution. "

apparently not.

by spigzone on 06/09/2009 01:46:54 AM EST

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Wrong Guy (none / 0)
You responded to the wrong comment.

by Tom Hanc on 06/09/2009 01:50:31 AM EST

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sorry (none / 0)
right you are.

by spigzone on 06/09/2009 01:59:23 AM EST

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"beyond your comprehension"? (5.00 / 4)
Well you certainly went rude early.

The falicy in your position is you make a lot of assumptions without a lot of factual basis.

"suddenly a plethora of exercises were ordered to take place on 9-11 and 9-12"
 
Not true. Feel free to elaborate more on what you mean. Bear in mind such things take logistical planning (e.g. fuel purchases, funds allocation, travel orders, etc...) issued months in advance. You don't have every "I" dotted and "T" crossed, you don't get to do what you planed.

"It only takes ONE person at the top to set such plans into motion. No one else needs to know."
 
When one person gives an order, everyone in the chain of command beneath him receives the documented order. Simple to find out the source, just follow up the chain. Orders don't appear out of thin air.

"And the  military, even more than the Bushco bureaucracy, CARRIES OUT ORDERS WITHOUT QUESTION."

And they document them as well as plan them months in advance. The "sudden" exercises on 9/11 would have been planned for months, possibly years. Most military exercises are annual events, occurring at the same time and place each year.

"No, you are a paid blogger assigned to counter anyone that posts something negative about the government or Obama." by Mcamelyne II on 05/17/2011

by Robrob on 06/09/2009 12:07:54 AM EST

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Ignorance (1.00 / 4)
"When one person gives an order, everyone in the chain of command beneath him receives the documented order. Simple to find out the source, just follow up the chain. Orders don't appear out of thin air"

The 9-11 commission tried and failed to find out the origin and timeline of the orders persuant to the various military exercises that occurred on 9-11 that so confused the situation. Documented doesn't mean shit if that documentation is unreachable.

As with the most of your responses, this was moronically shallow, ignorant and thoughtlessly off the cuff.

You are the Heidi Montag of the Young Turks Blogs.



by spigzone on 06/09/2009 01:00:19 AM EST

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hmmm (5.00 / 3)

"As with the most of your responses, this was moronically shallow, ignorant and thoughtlessly off the cuff."

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they become so dear to the people that believe them.  You clearly have an emotional investment in believing this one.

by bfaul on 06/09/2009 05:56:06 PM EST

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Lone Nut State (3.00 / 1)
Oswald was a lone nut.

...Until he moved to Texas, that is. Then he was just one of many "lone nuts."

by OneHitKill on 06/09/2009 08:37:45 PM EST

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moronically shallow, ignorant? (5.00 / 3)
So rather than carry on a reasonable (even rational) discussion, you continue to sling insults?

Please feel free to grow up a little.

"The 9-11 commission tried and failed to find out the origin and timeline of the orders persuant to the various military exercises that occurred on 9-11 that so confused the situation. Documented doesn't mean shit if that documentation is unreachable."

OK, feel free to provide examples of your claim. What mysterious "exercises" are you going on about and what significance is there to them having occurred? Extra credit if you can explain how these exercises "so confused the situation".

Extra, extra credit points if you can do so without insults or profanity.

"No, you are a paid blogger assigned to counter anyone that posts something negative about the government or Obama." by Mcamelyne II on 05/17/2011

by Robrob on 06/10/2009 01:25:43 AM EST

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Cenk, where you go wrong on 9-11. | 65 comments (65 topical, 0 hidden)