Proposed: We should eliminate race- and gender-based affirmative action programs. | 30 comments (30 topical, 0 hidden)
Its called "Get Over It"... (none / 0)
Affirmative action is wrong. Period. There is no need to assert the 14th Amendment in this discussion. The law is the law. No one should be above anyone else for consideration for school or employment. Period. - As for your "deep wound", all I have to say is GET OVER YOURSELVES!!! Nobody in 5 generations in this country have been slaves, neither are you - yes there have been hard times - every soceity has them, get over yourself!!! If you want to see "oppression", look at the tax burden in this country - THATS OPPRESSIVE!!! :)

by bobo1 on 07/06/2009 12:18:59 PM EST

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Stop with your stupid assumptions (none / 0)
One this isn't an issue of slavery dipshit. I like how people like you enjoy taking it back to slavery times, saying "you weren't slaves". No shit Sherlock. But guess what, discrimination, "separate but equal", and a lockout to opportunities continued well into the 1960's, with large remnants lasting even into the 1980's. It's nice to pretend like we as a society are 150 years removed from discrimination, disenfranchisement, and oppression, but we're not.

Even now, to a much much much smaller degree we deal with these problems. US still remains a land of opportunities. Affirmative action is a statement that we as a nation will and would proactively work towards fulfilling the promises of the 14th Amendment. Are there problems with many of the programs that purports to do this, yes. But nobody wants to deal with any underlying issues. And some, such as yourselves seem to think there are no underlying issues, but there are.

by the way, you fucking piece of assuming your ass off scum, I am black, but Nigerian American who happens to have majored in biomedical engineering. I make no excuses, but when you need to explain the issue, I do my best to explain it, considering I was born in the US and have lived here for almost all my life.

by nigerachy1 on 07/06/2009 12:39:17 PM EST

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I didnt say... (none / 0)
That there weren't underlying issues. What I'm saying is that there is nothing we can do about what happened now. What's done is done, and until people like you can accept that, you are always going to have these lingering issues... I don't know why you are insulting me personally, as I don't really care what your background is. What I said applies to all people regardless of race, creed or situation. You seriously need to get over yourself. When you hold on so tightly to the grudges of the past, you lose sight of what's important in the present... :)

by bobo1 on 07/06/2009 01:08:45 PM EST

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Why... (none / 0)

all I have to say is GET OVER YOURSELVES!!! Nobody in 5 generations in this country have been slaves, neither are you - yes there have been hard times - every soceity has them, get over yourself!!- bobo1

 

So that wasn't an attack at my personhood with the assumption that I am a black American or decendants of American slaves? Don't come out asking why I insult you when you first insulted me.

This isn't a question of what happened in the  past. This is a question of what's occurring right now. In this day and age, a black with a high school education no criminal record still has less of a likelihood of getting hired than an ex-convict white with a high school education when competing for the same job. That's not 30 years ago, that's based on a study done within the past 7 years.

That people like you assume affirmative action is some form of black reparations is ridiculous. The problem is not in the past, if it was, there would be no need for affirmative action. But racism still exists. It is much less than in the past but it is also much of it is more subtle and beneath the surface.

by nigerachy1 on 07/06/2009 01:51:32 PM EST

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in bobo1's case it is much less subtle (none / 0)

Bobo1 is a perfect example why affirmative action is still needed.

He proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that we have not moved into a post racial color blind world

Untl there are no more people out there like Bobo1 doing the hiring. We are stuck with affirmative action as the imperfect solution.

I wonder if bobo1 is also against affirmative action in hiring of the disabled?

A conservative believes nothing should be done for the first time

by C D on 07/06/2009 02:08:02 PM EST

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This leads into the assimilation discussion... (none / 0)
Chris and I were having earlier - If you want blacks to do better in hiring and raising their levels in soceity, then you need to play by the rules. I have to play by the rules, so why shouldn't you or any other affirmative action candidate? You cannot change human nature. There are always gonna be people who are in positions of authority who do not like minorities. Is it right? No, but it IS WHAT IT IS, and there is no law or ordinance that can change the way people feel!!! You cannot legislate morality, and you cannot stop racism by affirmative action - you only further drive people apart! You want to succeed in this country? Then you better know the right people just like everybody else... :)

by bobo1 on 07/06/2009 02:33:02 PM EST

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when the rules are stacked against you (none / 0)
you need something like affirmative action to level the playing field.

Conservatives try to legislate "morality" all the time. Its what they base their entire party platform on.

A conservative believes nothing should be done for the first time

by C D on 07/06/2009 02:56:52 PM EST

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Whose rules? (none / 0)
Yours?  Or rules in which they get to have a say?

Oh! Wait!  We do have rules!

Sorry, bobo.  Until they're changed, you're just going to have to abide by the laws as they are.  It's clear that nigerachy1 and chris already are.  You seem to be the one who is resisting them.

And what was that bullshit about not being able to change human nature?  So since we've always had murderers, at least since Cain killed Able (yeah, I know it's just a myth) maybe we should just accept it and not worry about it.  Let's just let them go free since murder is just human nature.

Why is it that you always stop thinking in the middle of an idea?

by EveningStarNM on 07/06/2009 03:15:27 PM EST

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Huh? (none / 0)
You say "there's no need to assert the 14th Amendment", but you also come back with a useless truism that "the law is the law"?

bobo, the 14th Amendment is the law.  All of the other laws that we're talking about stem from it or are restricted by it.  As a history teacher, we kind of expect you to know that.  You might want to consult a history book for more information, especially since you don't seem to be able to see that our country is still trying to recover from our debacle with slavery.

And your comparison of taxes to the oppression of slavery is equally ridiculous.  If you don't want to pay taxes then perhaps you won't mind if we insist that you stay off our roads, that you host the foreign terrorists against whom we will no longer defend you, and aren't allowed to participate in the economy that is driven by the educated population in which we invest so much so as to improve our lives.  And you can forget about getting paid as a public school teacher ever again.  You're fired.  You're not allowed to buy or sell anything, you can consume no public resources or services whatsoever, and you can't live in or enter any incorporated area or land that is publicly managed.  There's a small area in the middle of the Mohave Desert that we don't much care about.  We'll let you live there as long as you promise never to leave it.

No.  On second thought, we'd like to preserve the habitat there for some animals and plants in which we're interested.

Sorry.  You'll just have to leave our country.  You simply are not allowed to benefit in any way from living in our society ever again.

But the good news is that you won't have to pay taxes anymore!

Quit bitching about your taxes.  You should feel privileged that you get to live here in the comforable environment that our society provides for you.

by EveningStarNM on 07/06/2009 02:46:29 PM EST

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I already live in the desert... (none / 0)
And you're right, the government doesn't give much of a shit about it here since they keep letting all these damn illegals here!!! - But I digress, Star... I was simply saying that the 14th Amendment discussion wasn't really necessary BECAUSE it is the law of the land, and it had been asserted over and over again... According to our Nigerian friend, AA isn't about slavery repirations, Star. Its about balancing some equal playing field that unfortunately will never exist ANYWHERE on this planet... I agree with you (for once) in saying that Affirmative Action is wrong, and that's that! There is no justification for it in a "color blind" soceity... And as for my taxes, don't even give me that "roads and terrorist" BS - I just hate paying taxes to support AA type programs, I'm a Conservative, what do you expect? :)

by bobo1 on 07/06/2009 03:21:43 PM EST

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taxes? (none / 0)
when did taxes start supporting AA programs? I thought AA was something that jobs applied to their practices, not an afterschool program.  Funding children for schools is NOT an AA issue, that's an education issue, and then the admission numbers on top of that are where the AA comes into the picture.  I'm not trying to be facetious here, I'm just not really familiar with any AA programs that use tax money.  Equal opportunity employment by the government is NOT using tax money for AA programs, it is using tax money for government workers, and the HIRING practices apply AA. 

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 07/06/2009 04:20:12 PM EST

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Those little surveys... (none / 0)
On job applications and school admissions are used to measure the success or failure of AA programs in given fields - conversly, the feds distribute billions of dollars per anum, some of that on the basis of if those institutions have qualified under EEOC (AA) guidelines - so yes, our tax dollars are going to places that "follow the rules" of affirmative action. If they don't follow those guidelines, they don't get their money... Its like a government sanctioned bribe, and it needs to stop! :)

by bobo1 on 07/06/2009 04:56:25 PM EST

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like i said (none / 0)
the money is being distributed for people to do their jobs, and if EEOC compliant companies get priority, that's still different than money DIRECTLY to AA programs.  I see what you're saying, and I think we are at a point where the bribes are no longer necessary, so we are in agreement from that perspective, but they WERE necessary, so we still may disagree on that.  To call them "bribes" is a stretch, as it is more a "priority placement" for acting out equal rights, which is atrocious to have to force equal opportunity employment in the first place.  http://law.usc.edu/academic s/assets/docs/pager.pdf
http://aascpress.metapress. com/content/662555ttv634436 5/
It has been definitively PROVEN that employers screen their applicants on a racial basis that has nothing to do with their qualifications, and that should not be allowed in GOVERNMENT FUNDED organizations like public universities, or high schools, elementary schools etc.  Personally, I think churches SHOULD be allowed to discriminate based on religious beliefs, but if a church is taking government aide for a non-faith affiliated program, they should not.  Equal opportunity employment is about more than just race.

Chris 

by chrisandyasemin on 07/06/2009 05:23:44 PM EST

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I forgot (none / 0)
the private companies that comply with EEOC standards probably get their "tax dollars" from tax deductions, not necessarily direct funds in the form of a check from the government.  It's like the tax break a private company gets for hiring mentally handicapped workers. 

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 07/06/2009 05:29:37 PM EST

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Horribly weak argument (none / 0)
"our tax dollars are going to places that "follow the rules" of affirmative action."

The money is being spent regardless. So what if more goes to public institutes that give equal access than goes to public institutes that don't. Do you advocate rewarding public institutes for discrimination?

"No, you are a paid blogger assigned to counter anyone that posts something negative about the government or Obama." by Mcamelyne II on 05/17/2011

by Robrob on 07/06/2009 09:44:04 PM EST

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Proposed: We should eliminate race- and gender-based affirmative action programs. | 30 comments (30 topical, 0 hidden)