Watching this particular clip, and the comments about it, were enough to get me to register here.
I'd like to introduce myself: I consider myself a libertarian, I live in Colorado, and I think Cenk's conclusion in this matter is utterly and completely wrong.
Normally, I find myself nodding in agreement with him; his take tends to be the same as mine, on most issues.
Here, though, I believe he's completely missed the boat. (No, not on Rush. He's a twit, and needs multiple STFU sandwiches.)
The guy with the gun:
1. Stop talking about Bush. Bush gave us the Patriot Act, and Gitmo, and... well, we all know what the last 8 years have been like. We presumably voted for Obama (those of us who did, naturally) because he's different, and, dare I say? better than Bush. I, frankly, don't care what Bush would have done; it's not the yardstick I measure my personal morality/ethics by, and I sure hope Obama doesn't, either. Though, to be fair, for all we know, if GW saw a fella packin, he'd be just as likely to tell his security detail, "Hey boys, tell that guy I've got one of them just like that at home." You don't know; it was Bush.
2. Continuing 1), Bush would likely not let ANYONE protest him, and didn't, regardless of their color, or religion. We don't have to guess about his behavior, we know what he did; peaceful protesters winding up arrested. Making this a racial issue might be a fun fap for some, but that's all it is.
3. (and I've no idea why I'm numbering these, but since we're this far in...) The guy had every right to be there with a gun. He has a constitutional right to be on PRIVATE property with a weapon, ASSUMING he's not breaking any laws. That means: He's registered it, he's passed the background checks, he's displaying it in accordance with the applicable state laws, and the gun itself doesn't violate any laws (ie, an uzi if they're banned there)
That's not to say he has the right to have a LOADED gun with him. Just that he can have a gun. :-)
4. Presumably, the secret service did a check on this guy, and verified he doesn't have mental issues, and that he's not planning on trying to shoot the President.
5. The main point people are missing: The guy isn't breaking the law. He's protesting! He's not threatening. Sure, he's touting one of the more violent Jefferson quotes, but that's a protected form of speech, as is the symbolism of the gun. I'm surprised so many here are thinking so literally; usually, the far right hypocrites ("We're pro-life, and believe life is a truly precious thing, so we're going to kill those evil abortion doctors!") have a monopoly on that. I don't know what this guy's agenda is, but he could well be just expressing his deep dis-satisfaction regarding Obama's policies. That's his right. He's on private property, and he's a law abiding citizen. What makes America great is that we can disagree with our leaders; and thank Darwin for that! North Koreans aren't so fortunate, nor are some other not so liberated countries. (Darfur, anyone?) If you squelsh political dissent such as a guy openly displaying a gun and displaying a NON-RACIST NON-PARTISAN sign with a quote from one of the framer's of the Constitution, then what, exactly, makes us any different from them?
6. However, it's perfectly appropriate to ban just about anything from anywhere. This is the 'reasonable' part of amendments: You have the freedom of speech (which displaying a gun as a protest is more in line with than the right of the militia to bear arms, in this scenario) but you can't shout fire in a crowded theater. Likewise, you can't bring a gun into a school, and shouldn't be allowed to. (Yes, I live in one of the counties with a nasty school shooting. I'm VFF. This is an issue that isn't just 'happens elsewhere' for me.) You can't bring guns into most prisons now; you've got to check them. I'm sure most of you know more examples. It's perfectly legal to say, "If you come in here, you'll abide by these rules."
7. Yet, you can't try applying 'those' rules to people who haven't elected to be in 'there'. I call this the Miley Cyrus point: No one's important enough to trump the Constitution, ESPECIALLY not the President. We might enjoy the refreshing break that Obama gives us from previous Chief Executives who wanted to blow everything up, but we aren't in a monarchy. No one person is more important than our Constitution, and laws shouldn't be tailored to any one person. There's a reason it was framed as it was: specifically to prevent someone from 'becoming' that important. Miley Cyrus wants to make it a no-no to say mean things on the Internet. Next thing you know, folks won't be allowed to have projectile weapons around celebrities. (And, I know this'll offend some, but, frankly, given the choice, well... I just think Jodie Foster's a pinch cuter than Obama. He's a handsome man, but ... did you see her in Contact? Definitely would spend quality time with her. Where was I? Oh, right... ranting...) After celebrities, we'll have to make sure that when a politician's speaking, no one in the crowd can be armed... even if it's just the local mayor. This is a far too slippery slope. If that man had tried to come inside, take his gun away! No question! But, one, two, three, five, eight, thirteen, or twenty-one of these people show up with guns at an Obama rally, and are within the letter of the law, then what's the problem?
8. Even if the guy DOES want to harm the President (which is unlikely; he wouldn't be advertising that he was armed, and most nutjobs are too uneducated to know who Jefferson was, much less quote him), INTENT is not yet a crime.
9. Again, thank goodness we don't have to imagine what Bush would do. We know he was and is a wanker. Just because that crowd's got some serious investment in hypocrisy, doesn't mean YOU should.
10. Obama has class. I wish he'd gone over to that guy, acknowledged his sign, and thanked him for his opinion. Wouldn't that have been beautiful?
11. Folks, be careful with your extremes... too far to the left just puts you in the same place as those too far to the right.
(I posted most of this in comment on youtube, but, hard to have a serious discussion there.)
Oh, and finally, not everyone who disagrees with the President's policies are going to go bomb a building. (I'm not sure McVeigh even understood the shirt he was wearing. I heard his momma dressed him.) I don't agree with all of Obama's policies, and I voted for him. Our duty as citizens is to take our elected officials to task. Blind subserviance, regardless of party affiliation, simply leads to a theocracy; God* help us all.
*Feel free to pray to the diety of your choice. The Pink Unicorn, in Her greatness, tells me that I don't have to kill you if you don't believe in Her. Unless your diety's the FSM, in which case, her Pinkness does declare She's quite famished, and would you (and your diety) mind stepping in, just a little closer?
The essence of freedom is proper limitation of government.
by
sigilscythe on
08/12/2009 07:06:29 AM EST