Dick Morris and North Korea | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 hidden)
Self-defence? (none / 0)
Ah, I see. So North Korea has progressed in self-defence. Just because it hasn't been attacked yet you believe it is secure from an invasion. During the period between 1991 and 2003, Iraq wasn't invaded either. There were occasional air strikes but no invasion. Did this mean that Iraq had also progressed in self-defence between 1991 and 2003? Was Iraq secure from invasion between 1991 and 2003? From what I have witnessed 2003 until now, Iraq had not progressed very much in self-defence. Iran has not been invaded yet, and neither has Sudan. But I'm not sure how much either of them has progressed in self-defence.

I'm not denying that capitalism can be unfair. Exploitation takes place all over the world, has been taking place all over the world for centuries, and will probably continue to take place all over the world. And this is why governments in the West establish a minimum wage, and workers form unions to protect their interests. Are there any labour unions in North Korea? What's the minimum wage like over there? You cannot compare the exploitation that takes place in a capitalist system to what goes on in the communist system in North Korea without taking into account the tremendous differences in both systems.

Based on my interpretation of what you said, I was under the impression that you had accused me of cultural imperialism. So I wanted to set the record straight by saying that I do not believe that Western culture is superior to ancient North Korean culture; however, Western political and economic thought is undoubtedly superior to Communism. The proof is in the pudding. Communism didn't work. I never said that I was against the North Korean way of doing things. I was against the Communist way of doing things. This not cultural imperialism because Communism originated in the West, not Asia.  

by saad on 08/08/2009 05:25:52 PM EST

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Total cop out. (none / 0)
You're right. Exploitation that occurs in a capitalist system is not that much different from exploitation that occurs in a communist system. But the difference still exists, even if it is minute. The capitalist system does provide a little bit more freedom than the communist system. With regards to the minimum wage and unions, one would have to blame short-sighted government policies and special interests, not capitalism.

Arguing that genuine communism never existed is like saying genuine capitalism has never existed. Both capitalist and communist political/economic theorists have had their ideas distorted throughout the last century. But the only way in which we can measure which ideas worked best is to look at the evidence. At one time, about a third of the world was communist, was it not? It seems that most of the countries that used to be communist (aside from Cuba and North Korea) have decided to embrace free-market capitalism. Even China, under the leadership of Den Xiaoping, initiated some major economic reforms in the 1980's because it had had enough of communism.

We haven't seen very many formerly capitalist countries turn communist. The evolution has been fairly uniform around the world (i.e. communist to capitalist). So could you please explain to me how virtually every country that tried communism got it wrong? Did none of them pay attention to what Marx said actually said? To argue that every communist government misunderstood Marx's writing is a total cop out.  

by saad on 08/08/2009 06:06:54 PM EST

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Extreme cases. (none / 0)
You are taking the most extreme cases of capitalism and presenting them as proof that capitalism equals exploitation. Pinochet and Suharto were extremists. The US has a capitalist system, its human rights record is pretty incredible, and it doesn't kill millions of its own citizens to maintain its capitalist system. The US does treat the citizens of the developing world poorly, but then so do the leaders of those developing countries.

I agree with Naomi Klein's assertion that neo-liberals have pushed for de-regulation whenever there has been a major crisis. This has happened around the world and in the US (e.g. 9/11, Katrina). But again, you are using a straw man so that you can attack capitalism better. Guys like Milton Friedman and Francis Fukuyama were extremists; they were ideologues. Being in favour of capitalism and being in favour of fair trade and workers' rights are not mutually exclusive.

The exploitation and other negative effects of capitalism can be mitigated by enacting policies that protect the worker while still maintaining a system where everyone has the freedom to prosper. Overthrowing the capitalist system and replacing it with a communist one is not the answer. Planned economies lead to inefficiency since the workers do not have the incentive to work hard. And this causes economic stagnation.

And creating a classless society is very difficult, if not impossible. The state bureaucrats will almost always become the new appropriators of the surplus. We see similar outcomes in every nation regardless of whether the nation is socialist or capitalist. Under the communist systems, it's the state bureaucrats. Under the capitalist system, it's the corporations.

by saad on 08/08/2009 07:04:57 PM EST

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Dick Morris and North Korea | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 hidden)