Corporatists vs. Capitalists (Now with Fun AOL Poll) | 36 comments (36 topical, 0 hidden)
We're not dependent on oil! (none / 0)
We could generate all the energy we need with renewable (renewing) resouces.
We don't do it because they are more expensive at the moment. When we run out of oil it will become more expensive than solar, wind and other energies.
When this happens we will switch.
The claim that we are dependent on oil is just a hoax to make making money easier for the establishment. Why change, when it is not necessary. When it is necessary the cororationists will change and tell the public that this change demands sacrifices from everyone. What they don't tell us is that these sacrifices will help the establishment to make more money.
Money is the god of capitalism. It is the aim of capitalists to make as much money as possible. It is also the means by which they make money. This is basic marxism supported by the current crisis.
The "good" means of production are no longer factories, but money that can be used to influence the markets to make more money. Clever capitalists have made billions through the current crisis, because they had the money to do so.
It is the job of banks to make money without producing anything and they are really good at it. The crisis helped them because they got stimulus money and will within months have much more than they had before.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 09/18/2009 08:08:56 AM EST

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Yes ... and no (none / 0)
I'll try to keep this short.

Capitalism (while it has its uses) basically sucks.
Corporatism sucks.
Corporatist banks suck.
Bank bailouts suck.
Profiteering oil companies suck.
Corrupt, corporate-owned politicians suck.

Are we on the same page so far?

We could and should generate all or nearly all the energy we need from renewable sources, provided we had controlled the human population. This was recognised many decades ago. Experts warned again, and again, and again -- and were ignored. They are still for the most part being ignored by both the media and our 'leaders'. So now the world's economy i s dependent on oil for transport, agriculture (including the 'Green Revolution') and much besides. It shouldn't be, but it is; and it sucks.

We need to get off oil. We will never run out of oil, but the amount of cheap, energy-intensive oil available is about to start falling. That will have dire economic consequences, and will prevent us from easily scaling up adequate renewable energy sources.

We are on the brink of disaster and most people aren't even aware of it. You care about what's happening, but it's about more than economic exploitation (which is happening, and yes, it sucks).

Honestly, the best thing you can do, even at this stage, if you're not afraid of grappling with new ideas and demonstrable facts, is to make yourself Peak Oil aware.

You could do worse than start here: 

http://www.energybulletin.n et/primer

and/or here:

http://www.theoildrum.com/t ag/overview

Some people can't or won't grasp PO. It's a shocking concept. It is spreading, however, which is why Exxon sends out its minions to write articles attempting to 'debunk' it.

If you make it past the 'This can't be true!' stage I guarantee you will see the world - and the current crisis - differently.

You might even be back on here helping to educate Cenk on the subject.

Okay, so I didn't keep this short. I have no more to say about corporatists and capitalists. Good luck.

by Landbeyond on 09/18/2009 12:33:12 PM EST

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We're on the same page (none / 0)
I agree with you on all the things you said but one. I admitt that we may have reached Peak Oil, but I don't think it's a desaster.
We could still generate all our energy needs with renewable (I hate this misnomer) energy.
The reason we don't do it is that it is too expensive.
This will change as soon as oil becomes more expensive. Energy prices might rise for a certain time, in the transition period, but then they will come down again, because sustainable energy will be cheaper in the long run.
Capitalism just wants to exploit the current system as long as possible, until it is forced to expand by investing in sustainable energy.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 09/18/2009 12:48:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
About that transition period (none / 0)
Ah, yes, 'the transition period'. It doesn't sound too bad if you say it quickly.

To put it bluntly, 'the transition period' will probably result in your early death.

Nonsense? Then just forget about it. I don't plan on arguing the case here.

I provided two refs earlier that anyone with any interest in their or their children's future would be well-advised to check out. Here are two more.

First, an academic's interesting and quite comrehensive overview of what the world faces and why:

http://www.drmillslmu.com/p eakoil.htm

If that looks a little daunting, try listening to a recent recording of a talk given by Hyman Rickover in 1957. It illustrates what I mentioned about warnings from experts. Apparently something of a genius, Rickover is known as the father of the US nuclear submarine. He also had an incredibly clear-eyed view of the future of energy.

Here is where you can find the downloadable file (it's the first, larger one):

http://www.energybulletin.n et/audio/by/title/rickovere nergy

Giving too much attention to energy prices and the evils of capitalism will obscure the more, the much more significant reality that's hiding, as they say, in plain view.

by Landbeyond on 09/19/2009 06:19:47 AM EST

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Corporatists vs. Capitalists (Now with Fun AOL Poll) | 36 comments (36 topical, 0 hidden)