I am American, raised Catholic and unfortunately experienced the damage of molestation first-hand.. I just don't like to see an otherwise intelligent debate turn into a name-calling festival...

I am very sorry to hear that. But I have to say, you started the personal name-calling (I don't consider saying something negative about Muhammad as name-calling, especially when there is a legitimate discussion even among scholars).

"your god is a pedophile", "your god drinks pee", "Jews carry diseases", "Muslims are like cockroaches" and on and on and on...

I don't know if I can explain it to you: the statements "your god drinks pee" or "your prophet slept with a nine year old" are not on par with "Jews carry diseases" or "Muslims are like cockroaches". They are on entirely different planes! The first is a metaphysical statement, and god -as you claim to believe in- probably drinks pee. There is no way to prove or disprove that, so I can assert anything I want in that realm without it being controversial or offensive. The second, if not totally made up, is a statement about a historical fact that -granted- is not generally accepted but there is a discussion. It may be true or untrue, but from my POV, it should not be offensive to YOU that I hold any of the two positions. The other statements are totally different from that. They are provably untrue generalizations  very offensive and objectively unacceptable by all standards and by all persons. I often make a generalization that you might find objectionable. I think all religious people are deluded to some degree. I think that generalization is true, because in that case the point of comparison is equal to the point of objection (sorry, no philosophy major). What I want to say is religious belief and delusion can be equated as believing something that noone can prove and has no outside logic to it.

Islam is not only a religion but it's also a history and a culture that many people grow up into. You can't dismiss their ways just like you can't dismiss the positive memories I have of Easter and Christmas.  I imagine your perfect world is one where Muslims don't exist... mine is not.

My perfect world is where no religion exists at all and all people are peaceful and committed towards the greater good of humanity as a whole, but that is not realistic and I certainly don't generally advocate violently engaging religious people (not opposed to liberating suppressed people). So, next I would wish, there could be a world where all religious people would be reasonable. I just think that is more unrealistic than there being no religion at all. If you are open to believe something without any evidence and logic, you are on your way to believing anything you are told by authorities (or your own subconscious imagination). Even if most people ARE reasonable, SOMEONE will be radical and abuse religion to gain power. I don't want Muslims to cease existence, especially not the so-called Muslim culture (do you really think that the belief in Allah is necessary for the other aspects of the culture?) Call me crazy, I can totally enjoy couscous and falafel without believing... I think most of the cultural practices make total sense without Islam, up to the call for prayer, that could be a call for learning, a call for observation, etc. The negative parts of the culture, though, like public whippings, amputations and child abuse, I can live without and I am sure, most people could live without. So, absolutely realistical, I want for all children on Earth to enjoy an education that is totally independent from any form of religious brainwashing (if inevitable , it can be done after school, starting at earliest somewhere after the age of ten).

What you also must not forget, there is no homogenous Muslim culture, e.g. Maghreb and Indonesia are very different, only in the recent years Saudi money tried to spread their brand of Islam throughout the Muslim world with many bad consequences, especially for other Muslims, especially for minorities among Muslims, especially for women and children.

by eborujion on 02/07/2010 05:43:24 PM EST

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