cenks comment on the prophet Muhammad | 116 comments (116 topical, 0 hidden)
The whole world is a playground. (none / 0)
I have yet to see this mythological "adult" behaviour everyone is talking about. All humans act like children.

He's started it. No, he's started it...

Sorry, I am not an turn-the-other-cheek-person . I go on the offensive and stay there ;).

BTW one could say that you behave like an anti-religious fundamentalist.

Yes, one could make a case for that. I won't deny that. It is not in my intention, though, to stifle debate and deny other positions, but I want to shape the discussion, like the religious fundies do it. That is sadly the only way it seems to work.

At least in this forum I have never seen any religious person becoming aggressive or insulting

Before your time, I had an argument with a gay-hater. Does not matter. Yes, luckily, this forum is not infested with fundamentalism. But, most unfortunately, America is, and so is the rest of the world. It is a growing problem, you (meaning reasonable believers) will not be able to ignore it forever. It goes hand in hand with changing economic and environmental conditions. The more they get worse the more people radicalize and the easier they are to influence to go to war. Look how easy it was in the U.S. to stage a war of choice: the profiteers set the agenda, the religious right and the jingoists set the tone, and the rest has to follow lock and step or be (politically) destroyed in the process.

They push hard and influence public debate, if nobody pushes back, the soft middle ground will simple shift along and, e.g. the debate is no longer whether women have the choice to have an abortion but how many lashes they get for it.

we could have serious discussions.

Unfortunately, from what I have read in economic, environmental and political discussions here, I very much agree with you and Tothlike (except that he is a global warming denier), even if I am very much more pessimistic (realistic?) in that regard. The minor differences don't always seem to be worth debating. Religion OTOH, I see as a major threat to all of humankind and as its potential demise. Just remember, just because you can believe and still think for yourself in other matters does not mean your fellow believers are able to do that.

by eborujion on 02/05/2010 07:35:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The world is a vampire:) (none / 0)
"It is not in my intention, though, to stifle debate and deny other positions, but I want to shape the discussion, like the religious fundies do it. That is sadly the only way it seems to work."

That might be right when you are talking with fundies. Just as political debate is not won by thoughts, but by emotions. Talking to fundies I would maybe annoy them even more than you can (I really hate those guys, because they give all religious people a bad name). Maybe you should take care to construct your arguments based on who you are taking to. (And I should try to be less patronizing ;))
Americans have a tendency to see the world in black and white and that is going for decades at least

Democracy - Communism
East - West
Coke - Pepsi
Democrats - Republicans
Religious fundamentalists - enligthend atheists
For us or against us

This just doesn't work, as the Middle-East shows.
I always try, often without success to find the point where I can agree on with people and start to go forther from there. Creating fronts that are unnecessary is not a very good tactic, even though it can be satisfying. In fact it is exactly this kind of behaviour that radicalizes people.

"Unfortunately, from what I have read in economic, environmental and political discussions here, I very much agree with you and Tothlike"

Sorry for that.;)
I had some discussions with my Scandinavian brother that I really enjoyed, because we didn't always try to explain why our positions are superiour, but we looked if we could learn something from the position of the other one.
When you put Christians in a corner you push them to become defensive.
A wise man once said:
"Christianity is Platonism for the people"
Most people will never read Platon, but they will be confronted with Christianity, instead of using their believe to show that they are stupid it would probably be a better way to show them that Jesus (Christ, not the guy from TYT;)) was an extremly left-wing, radical socialist. Maybe this way you could convince them to join your course, instead of pushing them into the arms of the Republicans who claim to be the only ones who take them seriously.

PS: Seems we have a scaling of optimism, (from most to least):
Thothlike
opposition
eborujion
Does that mean that I'm the centrist and you two are radical loonies?;)

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 02/06/2010 04:22:22 AM EST

[ Parent ]

cenks comment on the prophet Muhammad | 116 comments (116 topical, 0 hidden)