"It is not in my intention, though, to stifle debate and deny other positions, but I want to shape the discussion, like the religious fundies do it. That is sadly the only way it seems to work."

That might be right when you are talking with fundies. Just as political debate is not won by thoughts, but by emotions. Talking to fundies I would maybe annoy them even more than you can (I really hate those guys, because they give all religious people a bad name). Maybe you should take care to construct your arguments based on who you are taking to. (And I should try to be less patronizing ;))
Americans have a tendency to see the world in black and white and that is going for decades at least

Democracy - Communism
East - West
Coke - Pepsi
Democrats - Republicans
Religious fundamentalists - enligthend atheists
For us or against us

This just doesn't work, as the Middle-East shows.
I always try, often without success to find the point where I can agree on with people and start to go forther from there. Creating fronts that are unnecessary is not a very good tactic, even though it can be satisfying. In fact it is exactly this kind of behaviour that radicalizes people.

"Unfortunately, from what I have read in economic, environmental and political discussions here, I very much agree with you and Tothlike"

Sorry for that.;)
I had some discussions with my Scandinavian brother that I really enjoyed, because we didn't always try to explain why our positions are superiour, but we looked if we could learn something from the position of the other one.
When you put Christians in a corner you push them to become defensive.
A wise man once said:
"Christianity is Platonism for the people"
Most people will never read Platon, but they will be confronted with Christianity, instead of using their believe to show that they are stupid it would probably be a better way to show them that Jesus (Christ, not the guy from TYT;)) was an extremly left-wing, radical socialist. Maybe this way you could convince them to join your course, instead of pushing them into the arms of the Republicans who claim to be the only ones who take them seriously.

PS: Seems we have a scaling of optimism, (from most to least):
Thothlike
opposition
eborujion
Does that mean that I'm the centrist and you two are radical loonies?;)

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 02/06/2010 04:22:22 AM EST

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