the first step in getting to single-payer is recognzing that health care is a right, not a privilege.  As bad as this bill is in certain areas that everyone mentions, it does take that gigantic leap.

If you don't make that leap now, then when?  Do you think killing this is going to bring single-payer quicker?  That won't happen (which we know, since we killed this bill in 1994 for that reason).

While purity is great in theory, this is what it gets you if you take it too far.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/10/2010 09:56:52 PM EST

In what direction? You’re not solving anything. Funny thing is Obama once said something like “You can't solve homelessness buy making people buy houses", what subsidize them? It's a stupid move that doesn't move towards single-payer either. How is this moving towards that? The mandate THEN the single-payer system? Then people keep saying it will be built upon. When? Next Term? Next President? There is no movement or support for it, they are going to pass this and tell you to shut up and be happy. Those subsidies aren't going to help much, premiums are going to continue to skyrocket and those subsidies won’t mean much to be with serious problems.

To make matters worse, is that this thing isn’t going to do much with more people losing jobs + unable to afford it, the stress the subsidies are going to be under is going to be more than what we have now. So unless you just want to increase the subsidies every year it won’t mean much. Then to the final point is that the Reps are going to Butt Rape Dems with the amendments they put in this thing, therefore blaming this “far left” bill for it when it’s actually a right wing bill. You think you will get Single Payer when most people will be blaming “leftist” policy for this?

If people want to wait 30 years to come back to this if ever and with most likely worst views towards leftist and progressive policies then good luck, I’m going to be laughing from Canada.

by Alloy on 03/10/2010 10:52:17 PM EST

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History, is it too much to ask for a bill which isn't absolutely terrible?  I know you know the arguments, but you are swayed so much to believe that this _must_ pass for the hypothetical future good of the country that you are not thinking about any other ramifications.  You are saying that we cannot strive for total Purity.  I agree.  Can we strive for--30% of what we wanted?  Is that too much?  Can we strive for a bill that doesn't doom the Democratic Party for the next 15 cycles?  Is that too pure?  You are acting as though this is a good though not perfect bill, so we are trading away real assets for the mystery behind Door #3.  But this bill is a disastrous failure.  What are you hanging onto?

It is a death knell to Progressivism in the eyes of the voters.  Democrats will be blamed for the raising of premiums, for the restricted abortion access, for the higher taxes, for the fact that, when the subsidies get cut by the next Republican administration, people will not be able to afford their mandatory coverage, and for the fact that they will look "arrogant" for pushing ahead with this unpopular bill.  There aren't enough Liberals in Washington to fight to make this better or to make the case for a greatly enhanced Progressive bill down the line.  And with the country soon to run out of money, the campaign finance laws now rigged even more toward Corporatists, and the general wave of falsely blaming the Left for this bill, how can you imagine that there will be a Progressive Congress that is going to make this bill much, much better in the foreseeable future?  And have the political leverage and resource and courage to do so?

We HAVE to have a line beyond which we can't be pushed any further.  We have given up everything.  That final line was crossed in December and we just continued to cave.  WE WILL ALWAYS GET 1% UNLESS WE ARE PREPARED TO WALK AWAY.

by Milltycoon on 03/11/2010 03:26:29 AM EST

[ Parent ]
has most of what progressives (whether you believe it or not) want.  It is the 1994 Clinton HCR Bill and it's pretty damn similiar to the Dean Vermont plan.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/11/2010 06:27:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Don't believe; however continue to follow the Obama Admin and Dems off a cliff. There people who only learn till after the event happens so again keep following :/

If this is what Progressives want then thank Imaginary Jesus that I'm a socialist.

by Alloy on 03/11/2010 01:23:42 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I heard the same record from Kill the Billers on the stimulus.

They wanted to kill that, they want to kill this, they want to kill the financial bill & the energy bill.  The teabag left is closely resembling the Party of No.

My pos is the same as Bernie Sanders, pretty much across the board from politiics to policy. There is a reason why he has been successful in his career while Dennis has produced nothing but failure in his 40 year political career.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/11/2010 01:35:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Your pos is to pass anything. Then maybe re-visit the thing without any concrete plan, I guess so you and the Dems can say you didn't see the cliff. All those bills are failures in how they where and are going to be conducted, so keep proving the point. All these bills do is to try and push the inevitable collapse of the systems they deal with because corporatists must milk the populace as much as possible.

People tied down to parties amuse me. Almost like religion in a way.

by Alloy on 03/11/2010 01:57:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
what Party is Sanders tied to again?

I'd rather align myself with him than Boehner if that is what you're saying.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/11/2010 02:27:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]