Worst Case Scenario On HC Reform & Poll | 52 comments (52 topical, 0 hidden)
We Have One Point Of Agreement (none / 0)
"A LOT of people are incredibly half-hearted in their "support" for this bill, arguing that half a loaf of moldy bread is better than no bread."

This I agree with.  In fact, that is close to my position.  I think all liberals support the public option, expanded medicare, and/or single-payer.

But, look, we live in reality not a video game. Look at the Whip count going on in the House right now.  It's a struggle to get to the 216 in the more progressive chamber for this bill, with all the opposition coming from the Right.  Do you really think we would get to 216 adding the public option?  We had to outlaw abortion just to get it (and a weak version at that) past the first hurdle by like 2 votes.  

That's why you've seen Markos, MoveOn, and liberals as whole move so much since December.  That's how it works, you fight, fight, fight then at some point you gotta go with what you got.  We didn't get everything, but we did get a lot.  We won the most important point - that Health Care is a right and not a priviledge.

Also, this is just not comparable to NAFTA in anyway whatsover.  I just wrote the post "You're Not A Progressive If You're Not Pro-Union".  I'm sure you can guess my position on that, as well as what I'm sure Markos, MoveOn and progressives as whole would be.  Progressives don't support NAFTA and didn't support it then.  However, we do support the passage of this bill.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/18/2010 08:41:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Don't underestimate partisan politics (none / 0)

While there are several factors motivating people into supporting this bill, don't underestimate partisan politics. I used to think that applied more to the Republicans, but I've learned over the last year that's not the case.

A LOT of people are partly or largely influenced by the fact that Republicans are (or appearing to in some cases, more on that later) and nut-job right wingers are fighting against healthcare reform. You know, smearing it with buillshit about death panels, abortion, socialism, communism, government takeover, etc.

That makes liberals much more inclined to support the reform (regardless of the actual merits of the bill), and the same goes with many moderate Dems who are already inclined to believe in compromise, etc. Granted, some moderates get scared by the right wing rhetoric, but you get my point.

by Tom Hanc on 03/18/2010 09:04:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
November (none / 0)
We'll see how much your -- and others' -- support for this bill helps Democrats in November.  Most of you are supporting this legislation because you're afraid not to.  You're afraid or what would have happened to Democrats if the bill hadn't been passed, and you're not thinking what will happen because it has been passed.

What's worse is that you're not thinking about what will happen to the country because of the passage of this bill.  Mounting national and personal debt.  Growing poverty and disparity of income between the rich and the poor.  And thousands still dying for no other reason than that they don't have enough money.

And you call yourself a "liberal."

by EveningStarNM on 03/22/2010 10:39:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
This Bill (none / 0)
is a massive income distribution to the poor.  Out of the 32 million that will get insurance, 16 million of them are from the expansion of Medicaid (public insurance) and CHIP from which most of money is coming from eliminating Medicare Advantage (private insurance subsidized by the public) and additional taxes on those making over 200k.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/22/2010 08:48:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]
More bullshit. (none / 0)
The poor are not the people who get the money.  This program is a massive redistribution of wealth to the wealthy via the insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

It's that particular denial that causes me to have the most disrespect for you.

by EveningStarNM on 03/23/2010 01:05:25 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Oh Well (none / 0)
I'll get over the lack of respect from a retard.

It's a fact that 16 of the 32 new insureds will be on Medicaid or CHIP according to the CBO.  It's a fact the vast majority of the spending goes to lower income individuals and is raised from raising the Medicare taxes on individuals making over 200,000.

I'm right, you're wrong.  Deal with it.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/23/2010 06:39:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Link (none / 0)
http://bostonherlad.com/new s/us_politics/view/20100319 health_care_bill_extends_wa ge_tax_to_investments/

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/23/2010 07:15:27 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Worst Case Scenario On HC Reform & Poll | 52 comments (52 topical, 0 hidden)