But at some point you just have to put policy over politics. It is hard too argue that in the end LESS people will be covered, even if subsidies are cut again. You just can't assume this without any study to back this up. Some lives will be saved.

And you are making a lot of assumptions about the future behaviour of the democrats that I don't share. Think about this: Because democrats are weak push overs, they can be influenced. You take this, and then you work them, every single day, like Adam Green does. You force them to touch this issue sooner.

I admitt that chances of success soon are slim, but at some point, you have to take this chance, imo. Sometimes a change, for better and for worse, and this bill includes both, is a positive thing, only because it upsets a bad, established situation, and you can use this crisis for to influence the future course of events.

Premiums will go up in any case. If the republicans repeal this, there is no question that they are going to make things worse. But then you can run campaigns on this, as you did 2008. The electorat isn't that smart, if republicans fuck it up more, as they certainly will, once they are in power, I think you'd be surprised how much better dems will look on this issue. And when they are back in power, they need something to work with.

by tomjane7 on 03/05/2010 05:00:51 AM EST

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We worked the Democrats every day to get THIS piece of garbage done. Adam Green "pushed and pushed" and got a meaningless bunch of signatures from liars who will not support even a much-compromised Public Option, even with a need for only 50 votes. 

The Democrats have a mandate and have leverage and have both Houses and the President and have completely tone-deaf opposition.  And the Public Option would make good politics AND good policy AND satisfy their base and their Party platform.  And would lower costs. 

The next time, when Democrats have (probably) less votes in Congress, corporate money is even more an influence on the agenda, the problem is MORE expensive to fix, and the stupid American people and media are blaming "too much government" for this disaster,  how much harder do you think we are going to push?  The Democrats aren't listening to us, and our "pushing" has given Progressives basically no victories in this Health Care battle and 25 (and counting) losses to the Conservatives.  We might as well be pushing a stone wall.  This bill is not progress--it is a giant extortion scheme that we are mandated to fund, and lied to about by the people we elected to be leaders instead of pathetic doormats and co-conspirators.  Unless we get some leaders, it doesn't matter how bad the problem gets, or how much we have accomplished thus far (i.e. virtually nothing), or how hard we "push"--there will be no meaningful Health Insurance Reform for at least another generation.  Look at the trend--the Newt Gingrich Republican proposals for Health Care in the 90's were as strong or stronger than what the Democrats are proposing now.  You think that the government is going to lurch to the Left because of the Liberals' astounding sales pitches?

Saying that the electorate isn't "that smart" is an understatement (as I am sure you know).  As long as the narrative is ingrained into Independents that any tweaks to restore balance to the system are a "Marxist government takeover of America", then the people will be biased toward a Conservative mindset--EVEN IF THIS BILL PRODUCES SOME SUCCESSES.  The conventional wisdom narrative doesn't care about what the actual truth is.  "Obama is soft on terror", even though we killed more bad guys in 2009 than 2008, Obama increased the Defense budget, escalated the war, favors re-upping the Patriot Act, and will cave on every issue regarding detainees.  "Tax cuts create more jobs", despite that Clinton's era created 18 million more jobs than Bush did.  Stop thinking that the truth on the ground is going to shape our politics, when our leaders don't care what the public thinks, and the public is too lazy to research the truth anyway.  It IS a two-party system, so when Republicans continue to completely wreck what is left of the country again in a few years, Democrats will be voted back into office.  But why will they listen to us then?  Why will they put their careers on the line to go back to this albatross?

You make a point that they need to eventually get "something" done so that the foundation is set.  But the only lessons that will be taken from this are that if Democrats are desperate to pass the worst bill imaginable just to pass something, Republicans will negotiate EVERY bill down to the worst it can possibly be, because they know the Democrats can't say no.  That is the peril when one side puts upon itself the inexplicable burden of "governing", and the other side's only job is to shut down the government, which is only a million times easier. 

by Milltycoon on 03/05/2010 09:13:08 PM EST

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The GOP long-term path forward is clear.  And that is to repeal what mandatory coverage at ER's there is and to slowly get away from other publicly funded coverage there is, be it current subsidies or Medicare & Medicaid.

This bill is better than the bill in 1993/94 (although not by a lot, but it is), and to kill it would kill any hope of getting the Public Option in the future - like it did then.  

If this would've passed 16 years ago, we could've ran on the Public Option as a singular issue.  Now, it gets lumped in with everything else from the massive 1994 bill.  It's not hard to see what will happen next time since we've been through this before.

I understand the frustration, especially among those who don't grasp the history of how to use politics to achieve policy, but people who are for the public option and for killing this bill are just cutting off their nose to spite their face at this point.

My website: History By Day
Follow my on twitter @historyday.

by HistoryByDay on 03/05/2010 09:34:19 PM EST

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