I am on board with what most of what you are suggesting, at least in theory. Other than the currency of course. So people making less than 60k would get a check at the end of the year for an approximate amount paid on consumption taxes?  That sounds ok, but I think you are going to find some difficulty with it being applied equitably. Are you going to tax mortgage payments and stock sales, as well as car purchases? What I am getting at is that the tax will greatly influence what people buy. 

In order to maximize income, people will buy as little and as small as possible, which in itself is regressive. It may turn out to be more complicated than the current form.

Apparently you don't understand how greed works or the part it played in the current economic meltdown. This is not about jealousy this about the facts on the ground and a long and well documented history of what happens when wealth and power accumulate to a small number of people.

The greed and corruption in this country exploded when Regan repealed the 72% tax bracket in the 1980’s. The 72% bracket was the modified version of FDR’s 90% bracket done under Kennedy/Johnson that removed loop hole while appearing to cut taxes. Once that protection was removed, the looting began. Pension plans were raided; companies were bought up and dismantled selling off the parts and destroying jobs. We have had 30 years of greed based polices. I think that’s enough.

FDR figured out that the only way to control the sort of greed and corruption that led to the first Republican Great Depression was to eliminate the ability for people to keep the money they stole. John Maynard Keynes understood that government plays an important part in shaping economy through monetary policy as well as incentive and disincentives.
 
An upper tax bracket that targets reckless speculation and looting of companies is a very important disincentive. Unfortunately, most people don’t understand what Keynes was advocating. He was not advocating for the government to continual pump money into the economy just to keep people working.  He advocated targeting growth industries that would provide long term return on investment, while in the meantime keeping people working. What the Chinese are now doing is closer to the Keynes than anything we have done since the space program started. I would count the internet but the capital gains tax cut under Clinton gave it a black eye.

By the way, we are pretty well off, so it’s clearly not jealousy. However, I am very pissed that my home has been devalued.


by sisco66 on 03/14/2010 10:21:10 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Step one would be nationalizing the banks, then everybody would need to have a bank account. They would get 1250$ every month.
Then, when they pay something the tax gets deducted. For example if I buy a new jacket for 100$ the store owner would get only 75$ and his tax is already paid,
Mortgages would mean that the money is going to the banks/state, so it wouldn't matter if any tax gets paid. It would just be the state paying a tax to the state.

"In order to maximize income, people will buy as little and as small as possible,"

You're trying to tell me that this would be a change, to what is already happening? I for one, always try to spend as little money as possible.

The rich people couldn't get any money, without the tax being paid, because if money gets moved from one person's account to another person's account the tax gets deducted.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 03/14/2010 10:51:14 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Ya that's probably not going to fly.

As far as crime goes. What's to stop people from going back to the barter system and/or robbying people for jewelry. What about gold and silver or other fairly easy to value commodities?

I don't think it is going to have the results you want to stop crime. Criminals are very resourcefull. Just look at what goes on in the prison system.

by sisco66 on 03/14/2010 11:07:13 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I admit that it would not have those extrem influences on crime that I would be hoping for. Well at least they would pay taxes.

However, when you want to ignore the crime fighting, all informations could be handled anonymously. If the banks would just have a finger print and an identification number, it would be even more anonymous than nowadays.
How the privacy issues are going to be handled can really be talked about. With some thinking we could get to a solution.

The main problem is that it would require a revolution, because the system would be so fair that the big cats wouldn't stand for it. No matter how much the people on this forum say, when nothing changes or things get worse, there's going to be a violent revolution, I don't believe the people in America, or Europe are still capable of revolution.

"The first thing Fascists usually try to do is silencing the opposition."

by opposition on 03/15/2010 04:48:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't believe the people in America, or Europe are still capable of revolution.

by sisco66 on 03/15/2010 06:30:47 AM EST

[ Parent ]