H.R. 5741 Universal National Service Act = Mandatory Military Service?? | 39 comments (39 topical, 0 hidden)
The negative arguments do not ouway the positive.. (none / 0)

The traditional arguments against this service is that during the two years you give up earning potential that can never be recovered and so you are poorer for having done it.  Many people think that being anti-establishment is a way of life and so they reject submitting to the government authority.

Fine.  But if you want the protection of the government, the social services that come from it, the advantages of living in a modern democracy then you have the responsibility to serve your country.

That service can be military, police, community service, hospital orderly, you name it.  But a society that doesn't strive to help one another will soon become a society of greedy selfish malcontents like we have today.

Certainly being drafted to go to war to fight for a bunch of oil companies and banks seems like a poor way to serve your country.  If the military was a non-mercenary army you can bet we wouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 07/27/2010 11:48:49 AM EST

I pretty much agree. (none / 1)
I think some sort of manditory service to better the country, or protect it is a great idea. Every American needs to to give something to the country they are a part of. No exemptions, except severe disabilty.

by ericroebuck11 on 07/27/2010 01:07:33 PM EST

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ok heres where I admantly disagree with you (none / 0)

Fine.  But if you want the protection of the government, the social services that come from it, the advantages of living in a modern democracy then you have the responsibility to serve your country.

 

no I pay taxes for those things. this just sounds like indentured servitude for a corrupt government and a corrupt system. this will cause a war and I will have no sympathy for any authority figure killed trying to enforce this.

this is disgusting!!!

 

that service can be military, police, community service, hospital orderly, you name it.  But a society that doesn't strive to help one another will soon become a society of greedy selfish malcontents like we have today.

 

we already have options to do those things already!! I could go join the military if I wanted to.

I could become an orderly or a cop or performe community service if I opted to do so, so this is yet another example of government over reaching and intruding into our private lives.

I will not become a slave to a government that wants to take the world over(dont believe me? check out that empire that we have been building for the last century.) I will not serve a country that cant even help its self. this country of blithering idiots needs to protect its self and not demand that I have to do it for them.

this country is way too lazy. Im not going to put my ass on the line for schmucks that sit on their asses all day watching fox and nascar and the nfl. I will not and I shall not.

I pay my taxes, I work, and I work within my community. other than that, i owe this country NOTHING! 

by moediggity on 07/27/2010 01:40:56 PM EST

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Agree with you on this point (none / 0)

I was also thinking on this side of the coin also and I was think why does my service HAVE TO BE military? Shouldn't I (the individual) be able to make this decision on my own and not have the Gov. telling me how to do it? That's what gives me the heebee geeebees about the whole thing. Choice.... or lack of it in this case.

by nastrodamus on 07/27/2010 01:49:01 PM EST

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conformity thru force (none / 0)

get rid of the nay sayers by locking them up and killing them(yknow, the old "oops he had an "accident" in prison" or kill them by sending them off to die in a country that hasnt done anything to us for mom,dad,jesus christ and apple pie.

fuck that!!! 

by moediggity on 07/27/2010 04:30:44 PM EST

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What a hypocrit! (none / 0)

You pay taxes so the house help can take the risks and do the dirty work so you can live in your ivory palace.  What a completely selfish attitude.  You sound like the rich folk.

Citizenship is more than paying taxes.  Everybody pays taxes.  Only the poor folk need to serve their country, cause they don't pay taxes?

You're such a spoiled little liberal.  Serve your country in a food kitchen if necessary along with the rest of us poor folk.  You might learn something, feel satisfaction get in touch with your inner self.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 07/28/2010 12:26:24 AM EST

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I am against military service for anyone (none / 0)

I always try to influence people to stay out of military service, regardless of their country.

For one, I absolutely refuse to ever shoot to kill, even to protect my own life, and I would only shoot then for a shoulder or something.

Two, I am against all wars of aggression, invasions of other countries, etc, for America or any other country. I prefer more peaceful methods.

Three, I do not view military service as good for the country, or serving the country. I'd like to serve the country, or the world really, but that would mean activism, being a doctor, etc, not serving the military. 

Support your country by not joining the military. 

by Maghetti21 on 07/28/2010 11:31:04 PM EST

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So you are against police, firefighters, nurses? (none / 0)

This service is not just military.  Those who do not want to be militarized will serve in another capacity.  The country needs soldiers, but it also needs a whole lot more.

You can't say I paid my taxes so I have no obligations.  Citizenship is much more than that.  I assume you were sleeping in civics class.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 07/29/2010 03:22:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I can't think of something much (none / 0)
more anti democratic and authoritarian than forced service in ANYTHING. Forcing people to serve in any job for the state is the sort of thing wars should actually be fought over if they have to be. This is the sort of policy I expect from a fascist. You can take that authoritarian nonsense and shove it up your ass.

by Maghetti21 on 07/29/2010 09:01:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
And you can move somewhere else... (none / 0)
where the only thing people value is money.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 07/30/2010 03:01:23 AM EST

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If it was up to me money wouldn't exist. (none / 0)
I hate money, it is the least of my concern. I right now am as poor as possible. No job, in debt from college, with less than 20$ left until i finish college. I do care about civil service, just not FORCED civil service. The forced part is where you go from agreement into my perceiving fascism.

by Maghetti21 on 07/30/2010 07:01:21 PM EST

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Then how can you say that's why I pay taxes? (none / 0)

You don't pay taxes.  What exactly are you doing to justify the "benefits" that you enjoy as a citizen of the US? There is no free lunch.

If everyone must do it, is it forced?  Everyone has to pay taxes.  Everyone has to obey the law.  Everyone has to go to school until the age of 16.  Now everyone has to serve their community for two years.  What's wrong with that?

Why are you better than your neighbor?

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 07/30/2010 11:04:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Umm... (none / 0)

Perhaps you should read up, you will notice I am not the guy who went on about how paying taxes is his civic duty and nothing else. I am a different person. Wrong person.

My position is that so long as you cover peoples needs, the economy is structured in a way where most jobs benefit people, the majority of people will do their part to help society WITHOUT it being forced. 

As for justifying the benefits i receive, same thing applies to me as all poor people. Were not dicks so we are going to help regardless of people returning the favor. The government covered my insurance for a long time, and is now paying for my schooling, but I will attempt to return the favor when i am on my feet, as it should be for anyone.

You wouldn't be to progressive if you want to bash on the poor, especially when they are getting schooled thanks to the social programs we support to get on my feet. 

As for my neighbor, I don't want them forced either. And I expect they will also do their part to benefit society with out your fascist ideas.

by Maghetti21 on 07/31/2010 05:05:57 AM EST

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Call it fascist.. I call it fair. (none / 0)

Everyone is the great leveler.  If we were a socialist society everyone would do it as a matter of principle.  Since we are a capitalist society the rich pay someone to do the dirty work.  If everyone has to do it, that means the rich too.

Our wars are being fought largely by minorities because the free traders that own all the corporate stock profited by offshoring the jobs of minorities.  No, to be fair it has to be 100%, rich and poor alike.  Otherwise we are just a serving class to the rich.

Don't waste your vote, vote Green or Independent in the next election.

by mcamelyne on 07/31/2010 06:39:30 AM EST

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H.R. 5741 Universal National Service Act = Mandatory Military Service?? | 39 comments (39 topical, 0 hidden)