Impeachment is Just Alright With Me!

With no call from the people, congress would not impeach by themselves, as no automatic trigger exists to begin investigation towards impeachment.  If it were not for the voice of the constituency, as is with all situations under the tool of democracy, no action would even begin.   And so here in 2007 the people see an obvious condition in our White House and they cry out “impeach!”  ; And the congress investigates to validate their desires.

Impeachment is a process included in our Constitution, Articles of Confederation, that the founders of the USA expected us the use.  They fully expected that the inevitable would happen, that a corrupt or indecent or dishonest president would fall out of favor with the congress .   So impeachment was included, mentioned six times in the Constitution.

With no call from the people, congress would not impeach by themselves, as no automatic trigger exists to begin investigation towards impeachment.  If it were not for the voice of the constituency, as is with all situations under the tool of democracy, no action would even begin.   And so here in 2007 the people see an obvious condition in our White House and they cry out “impeach!”  ; And the congress investigates to validate their desires.  Oddly as it may seem to modern folk, the congress is not compelled in any way to hold investigative hearings into matters in any detail, into the crimes of nuance levels, or definitions of ways and means.  Impeachment arguments for or against could very well be heard on the floor of the House of Representatives prior to votes or a single vote up or down. 

Factually, the constitution included one obvious word what’s meaning has apparently grown weak in  220 years, but this word if enforced to its original intent would be enough to excuse most seemingly needed investigations.  The word is:  Honorable.   It had one meaning: honesty.  It referred to a man who can be trusted to never be dishonest.  Who did not reach his station in life by any dishonest means.  No dishonesty.  No man who can not say he is honorable, was ever supposed to take a seat at the highest office of the executive branch in the United States. 

Section 1; Oath of the President of the United States:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

To the letter:  when George W. Bush refused to adopt already agreed up on treaties (each refusal to comply represents a constitutional violation), the Anti Ballistics Missile treaty, the Kyoto Protocols on reducing carbon emissions treaty, the UN brokered Land Mine treaty.  When his office furthered violated the constitution (Separation clause of the 1st amendment) with the creation of the Office of Faith Based Initiatives, he become dishonorable and became perfectly eligible for impeachment by the U.S. House of Representatives.  In a United States where its elected representatives follow the intent of the constitution, the Bush presidency would have been over by the spring of his first year.  A more honorable man could then be designated president.  Because reputation is honor, and honor reputation, a man with a standing and proud reputation of honor (never lying never deceiving) would be placed in office to carry out the term.

Several reasons allowable for impeachment are mentioned, giving congress wide girth in decision making and giving a sitting president a narrow passage of good behavior that only an honorable man could walk through.

Section 4 – Disqualification:

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

In a political pool of sharks and chum for a representative to come out and say aloud “impeach him!”  Might be draping chum around one’s neck for those sharks.  But who said congressional duty was supposed to be comfortable and easy?  It is a once in a lifetime political public service position.  A chance to be bold and brave in the face of career ending possibilities should be expected, and often looked forward to, if you are a servant of the people in the federal office of Congress.

Impeachment is the law.  Some congresspersons are fearful of stating that their goals may very well be impeachment.  Imagine a county or state prosecutor who will not tell the alleged, or his defense attorney, or the judge presiding, that he or she “doesn’t want to say whether or not his goal is conviction of the defendant.”  Of course his goal is conviction, that’s his job.  A jury will vote on whether he made is case for conviction.  A congress will vote on whether a congress had made its own case for impeachment.  Incidentally the Senate then conducts a trial on the Senate floor, complete with testimony.  Its Okay to say conviction; its okay to say impeachment.  The later term is merely a removal from a job, a trusted job that had required honorable service. 

For the sake of history our Congress and Senate should investigate all dishonorable acts committed by this Presidency.   For the fulfillment of a code of conduct spelled-out definitively in our Constitution that must be followed by every president, an impeachment proceeding should begin post-haste.  A trial, in the Senate, complete with testimony, should follow immediately. 

< The Most Insidious of Traitors | Production at world's 3rd largest oil field down 25% in 06! >
 Display:
    Das is Vary intarasting duhmkaph American chocolate bar eating fatistos!

by GAatheist on 01/30/2007 10:41:18 AM EST

Two things I would point out.

(1) Your definition of "honorable" is a bit Disneyland to me.  The whole, in order to be president you can never have ever lied is not a realistic ideal.  Just in case you haven't heard the Washington "I cannot tell a lie, I did cut down that cherry tree" was a myth invented after he was dead.  By the standard you have proposed has thier ever been a president who has always been completely honest?  We would have to impeach presidents faster than we could elect them.  And Clinton really should have been removed by your standard.

(2) As for your point that Congress is in no way compelled to investigate, this also seems myopic.  they may not be compelled by law but they should be compelled by common sense and at least the appearance of propriety.  I know damn well Congress CAN impeach and remove the president with no hearings, investigation, proof or even specific charges.  I don't think they should.  I think it is wrong, politically foolish and sets a very, very, very dangerous precedent.

Now, in the end you do change your call from impeachment to investigation, then impeachment which is where I stand. 

by ProfRich on 01/30/2007 11:43:58 AM EST

You realize that "investigation" was only a necessary formality when Clinton was impeached, don't you?  Meaning, the success of impeachment was not dependent upon the productivity of the investigation.  THERE'S your dangerous precedent.

by OneHitKill on 01/30/2007 08:52:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Just go ahead impeach him with no investigation or explanation.  While you're at it go ahead and change Nancy Pelosi (from San Francisco) to Robispierre (from San Francisco) and let the Terror begin.

Has it occured to y'all that the steel worker in Bethlehem or the rancher outside Bakersfield or the pharmacist in Ashtabula who just has a general dislike of Bush but hasn't gotten around to connecting all the dots yet might need a little more premise, explanation, perhaps even some tangible proof?

Don't get carried away, sure no one likes Bush anymore but we Dems hate him more than the rest and we really should take the time to make our case before we pleasure ourselves on this deal. 

by ProfRich on 01/30/2007 09:09:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Wrong.  Men existed throughtout the educated and the nobel who had never told a lie - had never beared false witness, had never decieved.   It is possible to live this way today but the choice to not do so, is an easy one to make for the lazy, the fast and impatient, the greedy.

by GAatheist on 02/02/2007 07:09:00 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Nothing Disneyland about honor having existed firmly for millenia.  Communities have traditionally been small, and honor a must if one is to suvive and trade with neighbors.  We no longer value this charactaristic. We let devious assholes like George W. Bush reach our office of the presidency.  In the small communities of the Colonies and prior, honor was true, meaning a man has never, ever lied to another.  Now we move about hiding from one dishonest act after another, concealing our lack of honor and even getting elected.

With the Sentate beholden to conduct a trial for Impeachment regardless of whether the HR conducts investigations, there will be sweeping or minimal, hearings, investigations, witness testimony, regardless.  

by GAatheist on 01/31/2007 08:54:58 AM EST

I think dishonesty is about as common now as it has ever been.  I spend a lot of time learning about history and I think dishonesty and deviousness and manipulation are as old as mankind itself. 

I am actually currently reading Herodotus (the "first historian") and it is a major theme of his work.  We see it in Greece, Rome, Ancient China, Egypt and every other civilization we have any history of.

To talk specifically about colonial times, this was the hayday of the Dutch East India Company who were kind of the Halliburton/Bechtell-Lamber t of the 17th century and they were some of the most awful human beings ever to live.

In terms of small colonial populations, just take a look at European-Native Amrican interaction if you want to find sleaze.  Also think of the Puritan communities and the witch trials which were really a pack of lies designed to eliminate political enemies and take other Puritans land.

For God's Sake, Aaron Burr alone was a bigger lying scumbag than even George Bush!!! He backstabbed Jefferson in the election of 1800, viciously lied and slandered Alexander Hamilton (a huge piece of crap in his own right) and fled to Mexico and tried to raise an army to attack the US!!!!

Andrew Jackson stole Florida!  Abraham Lincoln BANISHED (quite literally) a US Senator for disagreeing with him (Lincoln was the George Bush of the 19th Cent, by the way).

I think if you spent some time studying US History you would be shocked at what you find. 

by ProfRich on 01/31/2007 09:34:41 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Bush is going down in history as the worst president ever. A distinction he has earned quite handily.


I am all for impeaching Bush and Cheney  I'm sure there are any number of reasons that EVEN a farmer can wrap his mind around.

by Left Is Right on 01/31/2007 08:43:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Ah, the classic "other presidents lied too, so Bush is Abraham Lincoln and we can never impeach anyone again" defense...as overused as it is misunderstood.

People who stress out over the "dangerous" implications of timely and warranted impeachment would do well to remember that the world is watching the US and it would help us greatly to at least APPEAR to have some standards where our leadership is concerned.  Aren't historians always reciting that "unless we learn from our history we are doomed to repeat it?"  We failed to act when past offenses were committed, making it all the more incumbent on us to do the right thing NOW.  It would be nice if mention of the US by the rest of the world wasn't always accompanied by a roll of the eyes, don't ya think?

by OneHitKill on 01/31/2007 09:52:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"Lincoln was the George Bush of the 19th Century, by the way."

That is an accurate statement.

The Civil War was a war of choice.

Lincoln's approval ratings were abysmal.

The war was terribly unpopular.

Lincoln never let the Constitution stand in the way of prosecuting the war.

Even though nearly all of my ancestors fought for the Confederacy (most were in the Texas Cavalry), Lincoln remains my favorite president.

by KenTX on 02/01/2007 02:05:02 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Comparing our current occupation overseas to Lincoln managing the Civil War?  Desperation has no bounds in bloggyvile.

Where to start?

Lincoln; faced a dillema, not a choice, a dillema,  a  divided nation, or a  fight for unity.   Bush  a.k.a. bunny pants, had all clear choice to invade and occupy a barely armed country of soveriegn control that had never, ever, harmed the U.S., nor showed no evidence was able to harm us in the future. 

 

Lincoln wanted to suspend some of Habeus Corpus, but the Supreme Court and Congress immediately intervened and stopped his side-step.  As the three branched system should have worked.  Bush, intimadated congress, stacked the supreme court with extremists, ordered violations of 1st and 4th amendments, and 6ths amendments, placed a crony/friend in charge of the Justice department and got away with it for several years, and is still to this day.  

 

Thats a good start in showing the vast differance between a walking retard in charge and an edcuated self made man of high intelligence and wisdom.  

 

by GAatheist on 02/02/2007 07:20:31 AM EST

[ Parent ]

The man was a disaster who exiled a sitting US Senator (yeah, exiled!), suspended writs of habeus corpus and shut down news outlets who published criticism of him.

He started the most destructive war in this county's history through gross incompetence.  Idiotically turned our greatest military mind (perhaps ever) from a US loyalist to a revolutionary by invading the man's home state before that state left the union or a state of war existed.  Insisted on putting a series of no talent yes men hacks in charge of a war at the cost of tens of thousands of live and millions of dollars in property damage, was overwhelmingly unliked throughout his presidency, refused to free a single slave, in fact, approved the continuation of slavery in the part of the world he had any say over, eventually won a CIVIL WAR by approving a strategy of purposefully incresing casualty numbers until the other side ran out of bodies and saw his supporters create a legacy for him by simpling lying, ignoring the truth and endlessly repeating the claims of his greatness. 

He did give one hell of a speech that one time though (no sarcasm).

Seriously, I am curious, why do you like him so much?  Other than your love for him is confused with your love for the current president? 

by ProfRich on 02/02/2007 09:58:29 AM EST

[ Parent ]
"Seriously, I am curious, why do you like him so much?"

It would be easier to understand if you viewed this DVD.
I have dozens of History Channel and PBS historical DVDs, but this is one of may favorites.

This summer I visited Lincoln's birthplace in KY, and his home in IL. It was interesting.

Lincoln described his education as "deficient", because he really had no formal schooling to speak of. Yet he was one of the most brilliant thinkers to ever occupy the office.

He eschewed the politically expedient course, while always trying to do the right thing, and nearly making a mess of everything he touched. The day the war ended might have been the only happy day in his life, and he was shot later that week.

Pundits today speak of low approval ratings for Bush, but if they had taken polls in 1863, Abraham Lincoln would have been in negative territory.

by KenTX on 02/02/2007 10:40:17 AM EST

[ Parent ]
 Lincoln is not viewed as  the worst president in American history by scholars, Bush is.
I have a feeling there wont be any monuments to Bush being built in Washington.

There might be an impeachment though. One can only hope.

by Left Is Right on 02/02/2007 12:20:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Wow Ken.  This is devastating.  I mean here I was relying on my college degree in History with a focus on U.S. (yes, I understand you will childishly mock that now, btw), my own personal interest and research done over years including reading of dozens , if not more, of primary source documents, hours of conversation with colleagues including historians (professors) and more. 
But I concede.  I didn't realize you watched a documentary.  My bad.  Oh, and visited his childhood home.  Is my face red.
I mean how can I contend with your unsupported assertion that he was one of "the most brilliant thinkers to ever occupy the office."  Powerful argument. 
Of course, you don't stop there.  You assure us he "always tried to do the right thing."  You don't waste our time with any examples or anything trivial like that.
I suppose we are all supposed to just refelect on the widsom shown like the decision to imprison Americans without trial, impose government censorship, refuse to free the slaves in Union occupied America, invade Virginia when it was far from clear they intended to secede, willfuly adopt a strategy of killing as many Americans as possible to win the war and more as uncited examples of his never (not one time) failing moral compass.
And if that was not enough proof, you point out the people he was president of pretty much hated him.  I have no choice but to yield.
Ken- 1,000,000  Rest of World- 0

by ProfRich on 02/02/2007 03:39:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]
“Wow Ken.  This is devastating.  I mean here I was relying on my college degree in History with a focus on U.S. (yes, I understand you will childishly mock that now, btw), my own personal interest and research done over years including reading of dozens , if not more, of primary source documents, hours of conversation with colleagues including historians (professors) and more. 
But I concede.  I didn't realize you watched a documentary.  My bad.  Oh, and visited his childhood home.  Is my face red.
I mean how can I contend with your unsupported assertion that he was one of "the most brilliant thinkers to ever occupy the office."  Powerful argument. 
Of course, you don't stop there.  You assure us he "always tried to do the right thing."  You don't waste our time with any examples or anything trivial like that.
I suppose we are all supposed to just reflect on the wisdom shown like the decision to imprison Americans without trial, impose government censorship, refuse to free the slaves in Union occupied America, invade Virginia when it was far from clear they intended to secede, willfully adopt a strategy of killing as many Americans as possible to win the war and more as uncited examples of his never (not one time) failing moral compass.
And if that was not enough proof, you point out the people he was president of pretty much hated him.  I have no choice but to yield.
Ken- 1,000,000  Rest of World- 0”


Rich, I reprinted the entirety of your post because I want you to read it again. If you’re trying to be funny, you need to work on your timing and delivery. If you’re trying to be rude, you might have succeeded. If you’re trying to look intelligent and learned and superior, then you failed.

I'm really not that sensitive, or thin-skinned. If you were simply teasing me in a good-humored manner, then no offense was taken. I can take it, and I can also dish it out.


You asked me to give my opinion on the subject of Abraham Lincoln, and I politely responded. If you had asked for scholarly opinion on the subject of Lincoln, I would have offered this link.


There have been numerous scholarly polls conducted on the subject of presidential ratings, and as you can see, Lincoln almost always finishes in first place. And the historians who participated in the polls might even be as accomplished and renowned as you. (I wonder why they all agree with KenTX and disagree with ProfRich?)


Who were the historians who participated? Let’s have a look at their credentials.

A 1948 poll was conducted by historian Arthur M Schelesinger, Sr. The 1962 survey was also conducted by Schlesinger, who surveyed 75 historians; the results of this survey are given in the book The Complete Book of U.S. Presidents by William A. Degregorio.

The Complete Book of U.S. Presidents
also gives the results of the 1982 survey, a poll of 49 historians conducted by the Chicago Tribune.

The Siena Research Institute of Siena College has conducted numerous surveys.

The C-SPAN Survey of Presidential Leadership was a 1999 survey of academic historians.

A 2000 survey by The Wall Street Journal was published in Presidential Leadership: Rating the Best and Worst in the White House.. The participants consisted of an "ideologically balanced group of 132 prominent professors of history, law, and political science".

Another presidential poll was conducted by The Wall Street Journal in 2005, with James Lingren of Northwestern Univeristy Law School. As in the 2000 survey, the editors sought to balance the opinions of liberals and conservatives, adjusting the results "to give Democratic- and Republican-leaning scholars equal weight."

by KenTX on 02/04/2007 02:55:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
investigate...there is plenty of evidence to support impeachment and they wont have to search hard and long to find it

personally ...i'm not a lawyer but the need for impeachment is so obvious

that if the democratic party does not impeach

i'm guessing they will probably lose in 2008

i want them to win in 2008 so i support impeachment

http://www.micropoll.com/ak ira/MicroPoll?mode=html& ;id=23186

by mattinohio on 02/01/2007 07:08:36 AM EST

 Display: