Iraq Doesn't Want To Help Itself!

Time to let go. We helped ourselves during the Revolutionary War.

The Irqis are too obsessed with sectarian hate to help themselves!

It is time we cut bait.

We've supposedly trained 300,000+ Iraqi troops. Now we say they don't even show up for duty.

They don't want to make their government work.

Where are the Iraqi citizen soldiers to fight for their country?

We are in the middle of a 1000 year old conflict.

They are the wimps for not fighting for their own country, not the Democrats who want our troops to stop dying for them. 

Republicans love to call the French weak for their past performance, but what about Iraqis? 

Yes we broke it, but they must fix it.

We can't force them to fight for their own existence. 

Need I go on?

What sort of logic do the neo-cons subscribe to? 

Oh, oillogic, I forgot! 

This is how average Iraqis feel, I have no doubt:

http://alshahabeyasj.blogspot.com/2007/03/my-name-is-baghdad-je-m-bagdad.html#links

What have we done?
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hello world,

 

we just haven't had enough pacification, and iraqization, man, what we need is more guns, and bombs, and let them all blow themselves to hell, then when peace is war and war is peace, we'll just all get drunk on highballs and gin and tonic and coke and tell the world it wasn't really a war. Then we can pass the whole thing on to some other poor schmuck and go gamble in vegas. The important thing to remember is that we're doing a good thing, we're saving the world for our own brand of vice and good timey girls and bowling and that sort of thing man, and the price of that, well, it is steep, steep man I tell you, and it doesn't come free or without a price tag, freedom has a cost man, in blood and bullets and dollars and cents. And we've got to keep fighting the good fight on both fronts, on all fronts really. The world is going to hell in a handbasket. But the stock market is looking up. Hell the dow just broke 13000 and all these people crying about there's no good news. Pacification, Iraqization, militarization, we just need a little more time, and a lot more money. Maybe we should have a czar, an Iraqi czar, and a homeland security cheif, and big brightly colored easter bunny inside an easter bunny suit, hopping around on the front lawn of the white house on LSD screaming, No More Wabbits! No More Wabbits! But really man, if Petraus can't get it done who can, maybe we do need to consider this Iraqi Czar. Give him lots of power and some guns and an SUV (black of course, with tinted windows) and a security team and detail of about 20 men and let them drive around Bagdhad looking important and saying important things to the press and that sort of thing. But the important thing to remember man, the important thing is no timetables, can't declare defeat, can't give aid and comfort, can't send the other team our plays, can't switch back to playing defense with our defense we've got to be on offense with the defense over there, or we'll be on defense with the, oh hell man you get the picture. Besides if they come over here and we're over there, we're liable to get the chain of command all mixed up and we won't know who's in charge, DHS, FBI, CIA, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, the Pentagon, the NSA, the White House, the Congress, damn it man, somebody give me a Martini and some blotter acid and tell me the whole thing is over. No More Wabbits! No More Wabbits!

So, to summarize, pacification, iraqization, vietnamization, militarization, stabilization, infiltration, dramatization, prozac nation.

 

 

Whatever you do, don't click this link (studies show you're more likely if you shouldn't)

by tiggerporn on 05/01/2007 06:01:50 AM EST

WASHINGTON (AP) — About six in 10 Iraqis say they approve of attacks on U.S.-led forces, and slightly more than that want their government to ask U.S. troops to leave within a year, a poll finds.
The Iraqis also have negative views of Osama bin Laden, according to the early September poll of 1,150.

The poll, done for University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes, found:

• Almost four in five Iraqis say the U.S. military force in Iraq provokes more violence than it prevents.

• About 61% approved of the attacks — up from 47% in January. A solid majority of Shiite and Sunni Arabs approved of the attacks, according to the poll. The increase came mostly among Shiite Iraqis.

--- Truth To Power

by Leeberal on 05/01/2007 05:08:33 PM EST

I would know my answer right away if I were in their shoes... Because, declaring that they are welcome might just get you beheaded.

You're a true hypocrite. 

I thought righties were supposed to be macho. 

So, you believe in the French solution? Just succumb to the threat?

Must be why the Iraqi parliament decides to take a 2 month vacation while thier country is in chaos and our troops are dying!

Nice job if you can get it. 

by MountainMan on 05/01/2007 11:23:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Survival?

Pick your fights? So the Iraqis shouldn't fight for the survival of their country?

Here is one article on the recess (vacation), there are many more if you research. The right has been successful on eliminating any reference to the timeframe but it is July/August if you check:

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrac k/Top_News/2007/04/30/skelt on_to_iraq_parliament_no_va cation/

by MountainMan on 05/02/2007 12:23:25 AM EST

[ Parent ]

You mis-spelled "pole."  And anyway, that's actually a finger.  Ask Tiggerporn for help next time.

Wonder about duress now, wonder about duress in every occasion where someone doubts the result of a poll.  Are you sure you want to commit to that standard?  It might result in a catastrophic change in your orientation. 

Your political orientation, I mean. 

by OneHitKill on 05/02/2007 02:45:08 AM EST

[ Parent ]

J-O-K-E,

S-T-U-P-I-D 

by OneHitKill on 05/02/2007 11:19:13 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Fourth grade comeback noted.  As you were.

by OneHitKill on 05/02/2007 11:31:31 AM EST

[ Parent ]
It's good Bush vetoed the Iraq pullout bill, but it's important not to cave to the coming democrat pullout bills also.

by acroso on 05/01/2007 10:22:31 PM EST

and you celebrate?

by MRFred on 05/02/2007 01:35:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Truth hurts...doesnt it.

Unfortunately, the (Iraqi) officers here are much like their soldiers — they're not in it for any sense of patriotism. They're doing this to get paid," Marine Staff Sgt. Juan Santiago

 "I joined the army to be a soldier in my homeland, among my people. Not to fight for others who I have nothing to do with." Kudish Soldier

Iraqi Army: A Long Tradition of Cut and Run

1982 After the military defeats of 1982, the entire chain of command suffered low morale. On several occasions, signs of mutiny in opposition to the war emerged. According to unverified Iraqi dissident reports, the number of deserters reached 100,000, and in central and in southern Iraq. Many soldiers refused to fight in Kurdistan, and many more joined the armed Kurdish resistance movement.  Link

2002: With the renewed threat of war desertions seem to be on the increase again. In March 2002, Iraq Press reported that the number of desertions had reached an alarming high level - up to 40% of those called up didn't report for military service. This lead to the cancellation of leave for soldiers, and an increased hunt for deserters. Meanwhile even members of the governing Ba'ath party face punishment, if they know of a relative who deserted, and don't report him to the security forces.

Continues.... 

2003: Faced with the desertion of nearly half the new Iraqi army, the U.S. military is thinking about raising the pay scale for Iraqi soldiers as it trains more to join the force, the commander of U.S.-led coalition forces in Iraq said Saturday.

2004: Iraqi Army recruits will not fight for the US side in Najaf.

Sunday's showdown in Najaf was troubled even before the fighting resumed. Officials from the Iraqi defense ministry said that more than 100 Iraqi national guardsmen and a battalion of Iraqi soldiers chose to quit rather than attack fellow Iraqis in a city that includes some of the holiest sites in Shiite Islam. An Iraqi army battalion generally consists of 600 to 900 soldiers. U.S. military officials would not confirm the resignations.

“We received a report that a whole battalion (in Najaf) threw down their rifles,” said one high-ranking defense ministry official. He did not want his name published because he is not an official spokesman. “We expected this, and we expect it again and again,” he said. 2004

 

2005: Iraqi army and police units are deserting their posts after the recent escalation in insurgent attacks, according to reports from around the country yesterday. 2005

2005: On the Syrian border, US troops in the Sunni city of Husaybah report mass desertions. An Iraqi unit that had once grown to 400 troops now numbers a few dozen who are "holed up" inside a local phosphate plant.

Major John Reed, of the 2nd Marine Regiment, said: "They will claim that they are ready to come back and fight but there are no more than 30 of them on duty on any given day and they are completely ineffective." 2005

2006 American commanders said an entire Iraqi brigade, about 2,500 troops, has taken
over parts of the nearby city of Khaldiyah and an adjacent agrarian area from U.S. troops. But U.S. military advisers who mentor the Iraqi unit said just over half those assigned Iraqi soldiers were actually present. The Iraqi brigade already was short several hundred soldiers before they deployed to Anbar
province from the northern city of Mosul, the advisers said, and about 500 more deserted when they arrived in late August and faced their first insurgentattacks.....Moreov er, an Iraqi army policy giving soldiers 10 days of leave each month means even fewer soldiers are available. Fewer than 1,000 Iraqi troops are consistently stationed in this area if the soldiers on leave are deducted — so
this brigade was in reality about a third of its size on paper.

"A lot of them,when they were told they were coming to Jazeera and Habaniyah, they quit," said Marine Staff Sgt. Juan Santiago of New York City, speaking of two towns just
outside Bidimnah. Santiago saw more than half his trainees quit the Iraqi army
over the fall.
The number of Iraqis in the brigade has stabilized over the past
two months as increased patrols have helped control the violence, Santiago said,
but "it's always possible that more will quit......" "Unfortunately, the (Iraqi)
officers here are much like their soldiers — they're not in it for any sense of
patriotism. They're doing this to get paid," Newell said.. 2006

 

2007: "Some Iraqis are truly motivated. Most are not, but are asked to fight as if they were truly motivated to support the national government, rather than signed up to earn a living and survive. As was the case with the ARVN [South Vietnamese Army] in Vietnam, their [US] advisors often are not trained and lack the language skills to monitor pay, equity in promotion, conditions in quarters, food supply, and the other material conditions critical to real world morale and motivation."

2007: "Even at the best of times, most Iraqi army battalions are at only 60 to 75 percent strength due to institutionalised leave absences. Iraq has no functioning banking system so soldiers have to be given time off each month to take their pay home to their families.

2007: Desertions are rampant. Two Iraqi divisions sent to the volatile western Anbar province to fight alongside US troops against insurgents last year were reported to be 5,000 soldiers short. It is not uncommon for army units sent into combat to have less than 50 percent of their nominal strength".

2007: The McClatchy news service reported "in January that Kurdish soldiers had deserted in large numbers when their units were ordered to move from the north to assist US forces in the current Baghdad security operation. One of the Kurdish fighters declared: "I joined the army to be a soldier in my homeland, among my people. Not to fight for others who I have nothing to do with." Another stated: "I don’t know why we should interfere in this Sunni-Shiite war. If I am going to face a difficult situation in Baghdad, I will leave the army for ever."

 Iraq as a nation is a lost cause an no amount of John Wayne :Green Beret fantasies will change that.

 

by MRFred on 05/02/2007 09:27:38 AM EST

The "government" in Iraq does not control one single province.


Bush defines success in Iraq as a reduction in the level of sectarian violence to a level that the citizens of Iraq can live with it.

So the right wingers that say we are on a crusade against al qaeda in Iraq are dead wrong according to Bush.

--- Truth To Power

by Leeberal on 05/02/2007 11:31:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]

What Bush says:

But he (President Bush) said that, in the face of deadly clashes in Iraq, “it may seem difficult at times to understand how we can say that progress is being made” as he tried to put the best face on a wave of bloody sectarian violence.
“Our Ambassador to Iraq, Zal Khalilzad, reports that the violence has created a new sense of urgency among these leaders to form a national unity government as quickly as possible,” said Bush.
“The reaction to the recent violence by Iraq’s leaders is a clear sign of Iraq’s commitment to democracy,” he said.
“I urge them to continue their work to put aside their differences, to reach out across political, religious, and sectarian lines, and to form a government that can confront the terrorist threat and earn the trust and confidence of all Iraqis,” said Bush.

 

 

 

 

 

Reality: Here's how the current Iraqi goverment" earns the trust" of all Iraqis

 

Death squads from the Ministry of Interior posing as Iraqi police are killing more people than ever in the capital, emerging evidence shows.

The Iraqi government has begun an investigation into the alleged abuse of more than 170 prisoners who were found locked in an interior ministry bunker in Baghdad, many of them beaten and malnourished and some apparently brutally tortured.

al Sadrs followers infiltrated Iraqi security forces and regrouped as local civil defense units across Shia-dominated southern Iraq. In the cities where al-Sadr's fighters hold sway, they enforce a strict interpretation of Islamic law. They have bombed liquor stores and movie theaters, and they harass women who do not wear full veils. They also are suspected of running death squads that assassinate Sunnis and former Baathists.

 The Iraqi government lied about the killing of hundreds of Shias in an attack on Sunday aided by American forces, with the possible motive of stifling growing Shia-Sunni unity in the area of Najaf.

BAGHDAD, Dec. 4 (IPS) - The noisy demonstration that greeted Iraqi Prime Minister Noori al-Maliki on his visit to Sadr City last week was more than just a protest. It meant that the leader of a Shia-dominated government was being rejected by an angry and influential group of Shias

People rarely contact the Iraqi army for help because they seem incapable of fighting insurgents and many question their loyalty. The police - the members of which are mainly Shia - have, meanwhile, been repeatedly accused of involvement in the kidnapping, torture and killing of Sunni.

 

by MRFred on 05/02/2007 01:28:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
 
lemming suicide is a frequently-used metaphor in reference to people who go along unquestioningly with a  the prevalent opinion in a group ( in this  csae Conservative )  potentially dangerous or fatal consequences.

 

I want to thank BB for proving my point! .

ANY  U.S. victory or achievment in IRAQ is another nail in the coffin of liberalism.

Well well well...this is about politics after all! So much for GWOT. What a hypocrite..

 Iraq is about a clusterfuck as our country was circa revolutionary war (and later the Civil War).

Huh? Thats total nonsense...wait...to be fair let me see if I can find the references to George Washinton Federalist Death Squads here in my copy of 1776.

 

You do understand, that you are imploring those of us who support the war on terrorism AND the democratization of Iraq... to dis-engage from a known enemy, in a containable arena and to afford them (our enemies) the chance to re-group, re-organize and to annihilate any remaining opposers in their midst.

Containable. Now THATS really funny..how do you suppose the all those terrorists ended up in Iraq. Containers keep things in..and OUT.

Which known enemy I would ask  General Patton who are we disengaing from? Shia Suni Kurd enemies...pick one.  

You salivate at the chance to critize (sic) our troops and our President's efforts.

I salivate for steaks...and for the record I have never once uncriticized the troops...what a liar.

 But what you DON'T do... is share in the fight against those who have sworn to destroy us and our way of life.

Ive got more time on the shitter defending this country "against against those who have sworn to destroy us and our way of life " than he has on this planet.

If he want win the who is a bigger patriot pissing contest..he should go reenlist in the Marines, but Im sure they forgot about his BCD by now.

 

by MRFred on 05/02/2007 03:40:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
All this talk of bears and elk, ENOUGH WITH THE BESTIALITY ALREADY, BYTCHBANG!

by OneHitKill on 05/03/2007 11:07:15 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Let's see...dont feed bears...mmm...accustomed to being hand fed...OK....bear can eat much more food than you can carry...sure...uh huh... when you run out, and he or she is still hungry...happens...sure...guess who starts looking like lunch...check ,got that.

Next paragraph...freeloading bear, Fred..if you say so..uh...can't be satisfied by any facts..yeah yeah..demoralize...freedom...sure, sure.

Ok then..I am a bear being fed facts, BB cant carry all the facts and the person providing the facts can't carry enough guess who starts looking like lunch

OH I get it now

I AM THE BEAR THAT ATE YOU FOR LUNCH. GRRRRRRR 

An odd way to concede defeat but thanks!

by MRFred on 05/03/2007 01:20:54 PM EST

[ Parent ]
its some sort of homoerotic fantasy. Creepy

by MRFred on 05/03/2007 01:41:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]

theres anything wrong with an alternate orientation mind you. Live and let live is my motto...whatever browns your biscuits.

by MRFred on 05/03/2007 02:24:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]

You really need to get this analogy / parable thing down before you march off with some Romper Room logic to convince yourself you've " won" whatever that  means on an internet forum.

 Now whos got an personal politcal agenda....hypocrite.

 


by MRFred on 05/03/2007 03:19:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]

No No No...lets not be hasty.

After all being magnanimous in victory is something I always strive for.  I seem to recall that you didnt want me to me "overthink this" and "nitpick". I was just acquiescing to the simplistic logic that you seem to prefer. Consider it an offering of camaraderie and sportsmanship.

I am overjoyed that you are hopefull for a free people and a democratically elected government in Iraq. Thats very positive. Good for you! You know what they say about positive thinking!

There there, you shouldn't be to hard on you self. I would'nt worry to much about the Iraqis, its not your fault. You see, the Bush administration doesn't share your concern. The Iraqis , by default,  are a  free people and do have a democratically elected government, but we did not deliver on the other things promised to support a fledgling democracy ravaged by Saddam Hussein. Running water, electricity, security...jobs...boarder security...things like that.  Things that tend to suppress insurgencies and terrorist infiltration.

What we did deliver was a lot of no-bid contracts to Haliburton so at least Mr. Cheney is happy.

I would not worry to much about those oil fields either..they are , most are I should say, already under the control of Islamic Extremists..they are called Shia. 

Bases in Iraq? Dont worry yourself about those..we have plenty more. We have the largest airbase outside of the US in Qatar ( plus an Army base)..three bases in Kuwait..bases in UAE, the future Kurdistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkey  Oman ,Baharain and two CAGs! See you gotta be optimistic!

And while the bases in Germany and Okinawa may appear to be a waste of effort..lets not forget those pesky treaties that keep getting in the way. Look at it this way I know how you hate withdrawing from anything so do we want to cede the playing field to the Russians  the PRNK and China? I think not soldier!

Seeing a better day is a sure sign that you have cleared all those negative thoughts from you mind!

 

 

by MRFred on 05/03/2007 04:21:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I am so glad to hear that.

Maybe we could play some golf sometime as a gesture of friendship. Just a thought. I have some passes to Sawgrass TPC in Jax..great course. Nothing more relaxing.

Have a great day!
 

by MRFred on 05/03/2007 04:31:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Im not sure the rules allow trebuchets in the bag but as long as its it fits the cart then it should be no problem.

Release the hounds of war and all that. 

by MRFred on 05/03/2007 04:47:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Not many hills down here.  The rough is pretty damp.

by MRFred on 05/04/2007 08:32:48 AM EST

[ Parent ]

by all woodland creatures. My golf partners call me

 

Squirrel Killer 

by MRFred on 05/04/2007 09:37:25 AM EST

[ Parent ]
What debate? Punching you around like a tetherball isn't what I call debate. Besides your roommate Chuzlife ( ilk ilk ilk! ) declared "victory" constantly, as do you, at least until he got booted for being an asshole and a spammer.( wink )

by MRFred on 05/03/2007 03:11:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]

"your Chicken Little diatribe asside, Fred."

YOU WATCH YOUR MOUTH, YOUNG MAN! 

"[blah blah blah]....full birth. True, it's a complicated pregnancy but [so on and whatnot] as there are reasons to abort it before it ever sees the light of day."

That's why Iraq needs a wall to keep out all the illegal Mexicans.  And when I say "Mexicans," of course I mean Al Qaeda.  Because nothing spoils a new country worse than "gay marriage" (insurgency) and "evolution being taught in schools" (suicide bombers).  We're just gonna "Remember the Alamo" (stay the course) until "Mission Accomplished" (last throes).

In the land of Bytches, the man with one nut is king. 

by OneHitKill on 05/02/2007 11:46:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
metaphorical speaking of course. But I am allegoric to them.

by MRFred on 05/02/2007 01:56:16 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Facts suck dont they. Listen if you get some sort of rush from standing up for the

"drive towards freedom and democracy for the Iraqi people who want it " Great...its the other 90% who you've got to watch.

Go for it. March down to the Marine Corps Recruiter ( dont worry, you can get a waiver for your previous enlistment) . Volunteer for Iraq.

Then you can rest assured that as you drive towards freedom and democracy for the Iraqi people who want it these guys have your back

 

 

 

 

 

 

 <Iraqi Police and army with al sadr poster

Police and Army in Suni tribal headress' 

 

 

It is truly amazing , and speaks volumes to your massive abandonment issues,  that you have somehow linked two unralated subjects abortion and Iraq.

Congratulations 

by MRFred on 05/02/2007 12:27:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
unrelated....

by MRFred on 05/02/2007 01:02:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I'm definitely not blaming Iraq for the mess we created but it is time they really started fighting for their country.

I'm believing in the old adage that seems to apply here:

Giv'em enough rope and they'll hang themselves!

by MountainMan on 05/02/2007 03:57:19 PM EST

This post disappeared. I smell a right wing conspiracy!

by MountainMan on 05/03/2007 12:39:08 PM EST

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