NASA Chief Apologizes -- Sort Of

The head of NASA told scientists and engineers that he regrets airing his personal views about global warming during a recent radio interview, according to a video of the meeting obtained by The Associated Press.

NASA administrator Michael Griffin said in the closed-door meeting Monday at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena that "unfortunately, this is an issue which has become far more political than technical, and it would have been well for me to have stayed out of it."

"All I can really do is apologize to all you guys.... I feel badly that I caused this amount of controversy over something like this," he said.

[...]

Griffin reiterated that NASA's job was to provide scientific data on global warming and leave it up to policy makers to decide what to do with it. [MSNBC]

Griffin apologized for creating controversy. He didn't apologize for his opinion that global warming may not be serious enough to warrant action by government. However, he acknowledges that it isn't the role of NASA to make that decision to "fight" global warming.

My last blog post addressing this controversy attracted some interesting comments as did some other posts on this site. I will address some of those comments here.

Leeberal wrote: A super majority of  the worlds leading scientist agree as well as NASA  that there is indeed man made global warming.

A super majority doesn't matter in science. We lionize the lowly patent clerk in Bern who challenged the super majority and made a tremendous contribution to science.

Leeberal also wrote: The jury is in. There is no debate

There are two heated debates presently underway regarding global warming. The first debate is among scientists and computer modelers. The second is among legislators and activists.

There really is no consensus among scientists about global warming other than that the planet's mean surface temperature has risen about one degree over the last hundred years or so. They do not agree about the role of anthropogenic emissions of carbon dioxide in the warming observed so far. They do not agree about what will happen if humans continue to emit carbon dioxide at the present rate. There is certainly no consensus that we are fast approaching a calamitous tipping point due to our emissions of carbon dioxide.

Scientists are still doing much research on climate. They are researching the role that clouds play in global warming and the relationship between variations in solar irradiance and Earth's climate. Computer climate models give widely varying results depending on the assumptions made by the models' creators regarding clouds and solar irradiance. Until more research is done, the computer models must be taken with a glacier size grain of salt.

Scientists are debating carbon dioxide's contribution to the greenhouse effect. The most significant greenhouse gas is dihydrogen monoxide -- not carbon dioxide. Most scientists believe that dihydrogen monoxide is responsible for about 95% of the greenhouse effect and that carbon dioxide is only about 5% of the effect, with some trace gases like methane making up the rest. Further complicating the debate is the fact that only a small portion of atmospheric carbon dioxide is the result of human activity.

The debate among legislators and activists concerns what actions government should take. Legislators are cherry picking factoids that support their favored policy proposals. Anthropogenic global warming is being used to justify what politicians always want to do, restricting liberty and controlling the populace.

MRFred wrote: Even if Global Warming is over hyped, we are running out of oil, eventually. Consequently, there are similar fortunes to made in Global Warming mitigation, alternative energy, fuels and conservation technologies...get with the program.

Politicians and environmental activists are not debating how to go about getting rich. They are fighting over how best to restrict our liberty and control our daily lives. The very same people who decry any government intrusion into their bedrooms are quite happy to advocate that government should intrude into my garage and my living room to make sure I drive the right kind of car and install the proper light bulbs.

Even if adhered to, the Kyoto treaty would have made an insignificant impact on global warming. It was always seen as a precursor to a much more severe agreement to reduce emissions by a substantial amount. With gasoline costing about six dollars per gallon, Europe has still not reduced its carbon dioxide emissions enough to meet its Kyoto obligations. How much would the taxes on gas have to be raised in the U.S. in order to reduce emissions by the amount that most activists claim is necessary to avoid runaway global warming?

Far from being a great opportunity to make money, anthropogenic global warming is an excuse to wreck our economy and set back human progress by a generation. China's leaders have already acknowledged this truth. Remember the terrible recession of 1981-82? GDP declined by only two percent. And still atmospheric carbon dioxide increased. Between the peak and the trough of the Great Depression, industrial production in the United States fell by almost half, GDP declined by about one-third. And still atmospheric carbon dioxide increased.

KenTX wrote: It's like environmentalism is some kind of whacky new age religion to these people.

FreeDem wrote: I see little "religion of environmentalism". Unfortunately the only people capable of politicizing science have Chrichton as their spokesman.

FreeDem's comment was in response to my quoting a Michael Crichton speech that pointed out how modern environmentalism is becoming more like religion than science. You be the judge.

The climate crisis also offers us the chance to experience what very few generations in history have had the privilege of knowing: a generational mission; the exhilaration of a compelling moral purpose; a shared and unifying cause; the thrill of being forced by circumstances to put aside the pettiness and conflict that so often stifle the restless human need for transcendence; the opportunity to rise.

When we do rise, it will fill our spirits and bind us together. Those who are now suffocating in cynicism and despair will be able to breathe freely. Those who are now suffering from a loss of meaning in their lives will find hope.

When we rise, we will experience an epiphany as we discover that this crisis is not really about politics at all. It is a moral and spiritual challenge. At stake is the survival of our civilization and the habitability of the Earth. [LINK]

Is that an excerpt from a sermon heard in a Christian revival meeting tent? No, it was written by a very famous environmental prophet. Some even want him to be our next president.

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Now Twba, you need to read my comment in context to get the drift. I was appealing to Ken's well known capitalistic proclivities. Ken stated that:

Global Warming is another Y2K hoax...

I replied.

Y2k Was no hoax 

I made a fortune mitigating Y2K vulnerabilities.  Y2K spending corrected a lot of problems other than Y2K issues and spurred the growth of  the IT industry.

Even if Global Warming is over hyped, we are running out of oil, eventually. Consequently, there are similar fortunes to made in Global Warming mitigation, alternative energy, fuels and conservation technologies...get with the program. 

 Something will replace oil...Global warming will facilitate that:

Prior to the second half of the 19th century, whale oil was the primary source of fuel for lighting in the United States. The whaling industry was the mainstay for many New England coastal communities for over 200 years. By 1900, the whaling industry had collapsed, due in part to the discovery and refining of petroleum from the western Pennsylvania oil fields.

My point , perhaps not expressed clearly enough, was that if , no, when global warming dictates changes in our energy sources, the change will drive new businesses, new technologies and new opportunities that will supplant the petroleum based technologies that drive our economy now.

 Politicians and environmental activists are not debating how to go about getting rich. They are fighting over how best to restrict our liberty and control our daily lives.

That's probably a wee bit of an exaggeration. Is your liberty any less restricted being a slave to the OPEC cartel and multinational Oil companies? 

I know you are a big believer in the free market. The energy market is broken...controlled by a cartel and a few multi-national corporations who through outright manipulation ( OPEC) or malevolent neglect ( US Oil Companies and gasoline refining) maintain the prices at artificially high levels. I read an article in Business Week( maybe it was WSJ)  that Exxon-Mobile had bought leases on known Gulf of Mexico oil reserves and they were not putting them into production. Now why would they do that do you suppose? The "reason" was risk concerns in regard to global warming and increased hurricanes...

Besides, politicians routinely  restrict our liberty and control our daily lives . This has always been the case when it comes to matters of public health and safety. The Clean Air Act restricted my freedom to be a cheap bastard and drive a car that burned oil and polluted the public air instead of getting it fixed. That freedom was restricted years ago.  Am I any less free today? I'm still a cheap bastard...

If CFL bulbs are mandated and the price drops ( almost there when you look at replacement cost and service life)  to be competitive with incandescent bulbs am I less free ?

Why should it be any different in regard to global warming which arguably is a threat to public health and safety? 

In any case , even if there was no Global Warming , hoax or otherwise, our consumption based lifestyle ( raw materials, credit, land...) is unsustainable for the long term.

I think its best to change it while we have a choice of how to go about it. 

by MRFred on 06/08/2007 10:56:32 AM EST

Why should it be any different in regard to global warming which arguably is a threat to public health and safety?

How much of a threat is it? Global warming may be a net positive for public health. The growing season will be longer and the essential plant food carbon dioxide will be more plentiful.

I don't think there is any urgency to curtail carbon dioxide emissions. The atmospheric concentration is already so high that adding more has a very small impact on the greenhouse effect. We've basically reached a saturation point. The majority of the warming effect from carbon dioxide was created long ago.

by Twba on 06/08/2007 12:16:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]

 you  may be right. BUT we have a little serendipity in action here...why not use global warming hysteria to move alternate energy sources off of TDC...break the straggle hold of OPEC...lessen the importance of the middle east to our economy and make a little money while we are at it...sounds like a win-win to me.

Then again Tabora could erupt again and plunge the globe into another mini-ice age . That way I could run the Idetarod between WestPalm Beach and DC using my idiot neighbors huskies.

 

by MRFred on 06/08/2007 12:59:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]

 You cracked the code:

"Fear mongering, "sky is falling" demagoguery only succeeds in swaying "sheeple" and paranoid schizo's."

 

 

 Homey doan play dat.

Sure you do...you do it all the time...just a few examples: 

Demagoguery :
Refers to a political strategy for obtaining and gaining political power by appealing to the popular prejudices, fears and expectations of the public — typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda, and often using nationalist or populist themes. ( Thanks to wikipedia)

 BytchBang:

...those (Muslim Extremists) who are now being emboldened by the seditious nature of the dissent in our midst... would start seeing the futility in their efforts to thwart freedom around the world.

 The blood of the American soldiers who have been killed or maimed while you have so undermined the support for their missions will forever be on your hands.And you celebrate political gains made on their backs, as they fail as a result of your sedition?

 Yeah "homey dont do that" my ass.

by MRFred on 06/08/2007 05:35:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]

spot on or not...thats not the point, now is it.

You use demagoguery in your posts and you do it routinely.

But since you brought it up..please do show us the links and references...the ever so balanced Wall Street Jounal would be nice.

Also the number of Al Qeada subscribers to TYT would be just peachy. I wonder if they get the RSS feeds and streaming video in the caves?
 

by MRFred on 06/08/2007 06:01:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Self righteous too , no matter.     

I am not seeking political power.

But you speak for those who are , your words not mine, and you use demagoguery to do so.

I don't engage in populist propaganda.

Let us see: Populism is a political doctrine or philosophy that aims to defend the interests of the common people against an entrenched, self-serving or corrupt elite .

Need I remind you of your claims about conservatives, as you described yourself ,helping the little guy...."a voice to the oppressed, downtrodden, dehumanized victims".

 

But that's not because I'm pushing an agenda.

 

Now that's funny. There's so many to choose from.

I can only lead the sheeple to water.

Now about the leading part I would submit that the only reason anyone follows you is out of idle curiosity.

Gotta go..Atlantis is about to launch.

 

by MRFred on 06/08/2007 06:45:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]

the I'm rubber and your glue defense.

Ok OHK...20 bucks to my paypal account as agreed. 

 

 


by MRFred on 06/08/2007 11:03:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What was I THINKING?!

by OneHitKill on 06/09/2007 05:16:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]

The money posted already...

Wow those Nipponese ISPs have those gigabit uplinks for their customers...sigh.

by MRFred on 06/09/2007 07:58:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]

all right wing noise sites. How about some legitimate news sites Sherlock...

Excerts from some of your "search" results....

Myself, I just find it embarrassing. This is what we're reduced to, what the president has reduced us to. This is the best we can do. hang Saddam Hussein because there's nothing else this president can get right.

Ever since the 9/11 attacks, the Bush Administration meme has been "9/11 changed everything", and it has beaten that particular drum to justify all of its efforts to bankrupt the country, oil-grab in the Middle East, and eliminate the rights that Americans have enjoyed as codified in the Bill of Rights for over 200 years.

ABC exposes Bush’s secret order to CIA to destabilize Iranian regimeIt’s not a secret anymore. Some righty media outlet must have already linked it, too, because Brian Ross and company are getting reamed in the comments over there for revealing it.

Oh oh...free speech....emboldening the enemy! Damn those founders! 

All your "search" proves is that the right wing blogosphere has the same warped and incomplete understanding of our basic freedoms that you do. Except one:

Thus a suspicious type might be led to infer the existence of a set of RNC talking points containing the word "embolden," or even the phrase "embolden the enemy."

Consider, however, if you will, a more ordinary word than "embolden."

Consider "enrage."

Pronounce it, spell it, use it in a sentence. For example: "If voters fail to become enraged at this sort of slime-mongering, Republicans may be emboldened to repeat it."

 

by MRFred on 06/09/2007 07:46:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]

World Net Daily?....WND the  arch-conservative online news site? That one? guffaw....  Aaron Kline ( Kach/Kahane Chai) ...guffaw guffaw...any credible news sources other than a right wing extremist "news" organization and reporters?

Im still laughing, World Net Daily...oh yeah there's a great source . Some sampling of WNDs " jounalism":

Soy is making kids 'gay'

The Downing of United Airlines Flight 93  In 2004, WND published a commentary by James Sanders entitled which proposed that, to defend Washington D.C., Flight 93 had been intercepted and shot with a missile by a military aircraft. It also alleged that the government had tried to cover up this information.

Terorrist every where! On December 3, 2006 a WND article said that: "Reports that KGB defector Alexander Litvinenko converted to Islam before his mysterious poisoning with radioactive polonium 210 is raising suspicions that he may have been involved in a plot to smuggle the deadly substance to terrorist groups."According to an article in The Times(London), mentioning the WND article, the evidence for these suspicions was "gossip from his Muslim next-door neighbour." ( Also where Mr. Kline gets his news apperently)

No agenda here, right? WND was founded in 1997 by Joseph Farah. In 1991, after resigning as editor of the Sacramento Union, Farah co-founded the Western Journalism Center, known for its promotion of conservative causes, with James H. Smith, former publisher of the Sacramento Union.<sup> </sup>In 1994 and 1995, foundations controlled by conservative financier and former owner of the Union Richard Mellon Scaife gave $330,000 to the Center.

More praise for WND:

Now we have forced two major websites, one being one of the biggest newspapers in the country, to eat crow and in the case of the journalists concerned, expose themselves as narrow-minded and inept in performing the most basic research skills.

Rumsfeld says 9-11 plane 'shot down' in Pennsylvania

"When Corsi and World Net Daily are sounding like Bill Press- we’ll - you know things are f’d up. Watch Corsi on CSpan:scary stuff. Again, you gotta ask - Why isn’t the media reporting this?"

(I'll give you a clue:Two words Jerome Corsi ...Can anyone say sedition!MR Fred )

But you can get WingNut books too! 

 

The Marketing of Evil: How Radicals, Elitists, and Pseudo-Experts Sell Us Corruption Disguised as Freedom reveals how much of what Americans once almost universally abhorred has been packaged, perfumed, gift-wrapped and sold to them as though it had great value. Highly skilled marketers, playing on our deeply felt national values of fairness, generosity and tolerance, have persuaded us to embrace as enlightened and noble that which all previous generations since America’s founding regarded as grossly self-destructive – in a word, evil. (Basically ,sex. MrFred)

Christianity and the American Commonwealth
Galloway leaves no historical fact unturned in his demonstration that America was founded as a Christian nation. He also proves that without the Gospel and the application of all of God’s Word to all of life, civilizations turn despotic and crumble.( And what we cant find...we'll fabricate! MrFred)

The UFO Conspiracy: Space Travelers or Demonic Deceivers?
More than a stunning catalog of UFO photography, video and eyewitness recordings, hear startling scriptural evidence from noted scholars which reveals the hidden truth about UFO's and the beings who  operate them. ( WND has got be the best thing to happen to conservatism since Bill Bennets gambling problem..MRfred)

Raising Maidens of Virtue
An engaging tool for mothers to use in training daughters who are approaching womanhood to think biblically. ( Stone them if the step out of line! MRfred)

Whoever Controls the Schools Rules the World (book)
One of the Most Useful Tools in the Quest for Power is the Educational System. how education can be used as a vehicle for social change from Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler to secular humanism and radical Islam. Our worldview oponents understand that education is where the war of ideas is fought. If Christians are serious about securing the future for our children, they must understand the nature of the war we are fighting. (Every thing is a "war " with these people MrFred)

Lost Legend of the Great Pyramid - The Pillar of Enoch (DVD) Although much research remains to be done in these areas, legend, archaeology, mathematics, and earth sciences seem to indicate that the Great Pyramid was a monumental device for gathering knowledge and information to be revealed and decoded at a latter time for the spiritual benefit of human beings.( Also sharpens razor blades MRfred)

Darwin’s Deadly Legacy looks at the grim social impact of Charles Darwin’s idea that all life is the product of time and chance. That theory—never proven and now increasingly discredited—laid the foundation for genocide in Nazi Germany. As a disciple of Darwin, Hitler simply tried to accelerate evolution by subjecting some twelve million men, women, and children to a horrible death in the Holocaust. This 60 minute special features experts such as Lee Strobel, Jonathan Wells, Phillip Johnson, Michael Behe, and Ann Coulter who will show why evolution is a bad idea that should be discarded into the dustbin of history.( Well, Coulter may have something there, she survived....MRFred)

Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self Defense. The book that asked the question: What would you do if armed terrorists broke into your church and starting attacking your friends with automatic weapons in the middle of a worship service?( Do they have a place to hang you heater when you get baptised? MrFred)

Terri's Story What would Terri have told us if she could? How could her caregivers over the years claim that she repeatedly made statements like “Stop that,” “Pain,” and “Help me,” while her husband’s attorney likened her to a “house plant?”( Wrtten by Bill Frists publicist MRFred)

Not to worry, I hear they ( WND) are going to start Bat Boy reporting....

by MRFred on 06/09/2007 10:41:47 AM EST

[ Parent ]
That's probably a wee bit of an exaggeration. Is your liberty any less restricted being a slave to the OPEC cartel and multinational Oil companies?

I'm not much of a slave to OPEC. I don't consider myself a slave of West Virginia coal miners or Canadian natural gas drillers. I'm not a slave to Washington apple growers or Mexican avocado farmers. These are producers of products I freely choose to consume, either directly or indirectly.

Now if politicians decide to institute draconian taxes on carbon, will I be less free? A lot of energy goes into producing everyday items. In many parts of the country, that energy is derived by burning coal. A carbon tax will hit coal hard. If this triggers a major economic contraction, will you be less free?

Are we really willing to screw up the greatest engine of innovation and invention on the planet on the small chance that it will reduce the slight rise in the mean surface temperature over the next hundred years to one degree instead of two degrees? I don't think it's worth it.

by Twba on 06/08/2007 03:27:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]

 The composition of the earth’s atmosphere is constant from the ground to about 100 kilometers above it. The main components are nitrogen molecules, oxygen molecules, and argon, and the mixture ratios are 78%, 21% and 0.9%, respectively. So, this region is called “the homogeneous sphere”. The atmosphere in this region is homogeneous because the atmosphere is mixed well by diffusion which is caused by various sizes of vortex (this type of diffusion is called “vortex diffusion” or “turbulent diffusion”)Dr. Hiroshi Hukunishi

In other words...wind 

by MRFred on 06/08/2007 12:48:11 PM EST

What do you think happens...the rest of the gases just sit there?

Constant components
(proportions remain the same over time and location)
Nitrogen (N2)     
78.08%
Oxygen (O2)     
20.95%
Argon (Ar)     
0.93%
Neon, Helium, Krypton     
0.0001%
Variable components
(amounts vary over time and location)
Carbon dioxide (CO2)     0.0003%
Water vapor (H20)     0-4%
Methane (CH4)     trace
Sulfur dioxide (SO2)     trace
Ozone (O3)     trace

If you want to know the math of it ask Ken about the gas laws...partial pressures and all that. If there was absolutely no wind..the gases would eventual settle in layers.

by MRFred on 06/08/2007 01:08:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
constant temp...nothing moving.

by MRFred on 06/08/2007 01:22:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO<sub>2</sub> into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO<sub>2</sub> by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO<sub>2</sub>, through 2003.]. Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO<sub>2</sub> emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)

by MRFred on 06/08/2007 03:51:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]

you should

buy some newfangled light bulbs so I can save my family from this terrible wrath of nature.

a couple of hundred bucks a year on your light bill.

 

Who fucking thew that our chances for survival were so precariously balanced?

Why that's a very insightful observation.

Some where out in the Kuiper Belt  or beyond is an object that will interact with another KB object that passes nearby. The interaction  will change the orbit ever so slighty, a minuscule .0001 % deviation that in serveral thousands of years the object will eventually become a near earth object, become influenced by the gravitaion of the gas giants ( not to mention Uranus!) and smash into the earth destroying all life. It hasn't be discovered yet..I'll call it BytchBang0001.

So small changes can have big effects long term...look at Brittany Spears before and after her breast augmentation.

" Positve feedback" is the mechanism that will kill us, CO2 just kicks off the cycle. At least that's the theory.

 


by MRFred on 06/08/2007 04:53:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Positive feedback that is....ask the surviving Soviets at Chernobyl  or this guy 

Disregard at your own risk. 

by MRFred on 06/08/2007 05:54:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
My question is this... Given that Carbon Dioxide is in fact "heavier than air" .. have you ran across anything in your research... that explains how man-made carbon dioxide (4%) gets itself far enough up into our athmosphere to cause problems?

Most of the Sun's radiation, except that part that is reflected by clouds, passes through the atmosphere and warms Earth's surface. The carbon dioxide doesn't absorb the heat from the Sun because the solar radiation is not the right wavelength. Oxygen absorbs some incoming ultraviolet radiation and that slightly warms the upper reaches of the atmosphere. Carbon dioxide absorbs radiation emitted by Earth. Instead of all the heat passing through the atmosphere and into space, some is absorbed by greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide. Hot air rises and circulates. The heat is released into space, just not as quickly as it would be if there were no greenhouse gases.

by Twba on 06/08/2007 01:38:38 PM EST

So you flunked 9th grade science class obviously and are turning to some stranger on a message board for "expert" advice?

NASA scientists say there is global warming. They are trusted to put someone on the moon or do a shuttle launch but they just cant get it right on this global warming thing until it  fits with your ideology.  Darn it!

--- Truth To Power

by Leeberal on 06/08/2007 02:48:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
1. Is the radiation emitting from our Sun an absolute constant? Or does it fluctuate with solar flares and other solar surface activities?

Solar irradiance does vary. Sunspot activity is a good example of the variability. Sunspots are darker, cooler areas on the Sun's surface. Here is a page from NASA that explains solar variability. There is still serious research being done to better understand the Sun and how it affects Earth's climate. This page gives some details about a new space telescope investigating the Sun. The photos are fascinating.

2. Do fluctuations (if any) in our Sun's radiation being emitted have anything at all to do with the rise and fall of temperatures here on Earth?

There is strong evidence that fluctuations in Earth's temperature coincide with cyclical sunspot activity. There were far fewer sunspots observed during the Little Ice Age than now.

3. (Lastly) Is there any corelation between our most recent warming trends and the actual emitted energy and other activities taking place on our sun... or is it simply that 4% of the.0003% of the C02 in our athmosphere being created by the self destructive nature in "mankind"?

Earth is warming. Mars is warming. Jupiter is warming. Neptune is warming. What do all these planets have in common?

by Twba on 06/08/2007 04:18:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Here is the NASA page for the Hinode space telescope that is aimed at the Sun. This movie from the X-ray telescope is very interesting.

by Twba on 06/08/2007 04:44:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]
That's weird how all these scientists are so wrong and you and rush limbaugh are the only ones that have it figured out!

Well and EXXON MOBILE

You are ideologically blinded to basic facts.


--- Truth To Power

by Leeberal on 06/08/2007 07:20:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Leeberal wrote: The jury is in. There is no debate.... You are ideologically blinded to basic facts.

Al Gore testified before Congress: "First of all, there is no longer any serious debate over the basic points that make up the consensus on global warming. The ten warmest years on record have all been since 1990."

Gore didn't point out the fact that the record does not go back very far and that it is not reliable. Many temperature recording sites are subject to the heat island effect, which makes the record too biased to claim that the ten warmest years have all been since 1990.

This webpage gives some insight into how the heat island effect can affect temperature records even in sparsely populated rural areas.

NASA scientists say there is global warming. They are trusted to put someone on the moon or do a shuttle launch but they just cant get it right on this global warming thing until it  fits with your ideology.  Darn it!

Let's put aside the fact that the people entrusted with launching space shuttles have a long record of failures, not just delayed and scrubbed launches, but spectacular catastrophic failures.

There is no consensus within the ranks of NASA scientists about global warming once you get past the basic facts that the mean surface temperature appears to have risen slightly and that atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration is rising slowly. If by global warming you mean apocalyptic anthropogenic global warming, there is absolutely no consensus among NASA scientists. But there is James Hansen to produce prophecies of imminent climatic armageddon.

Why do you insist on stating that there is no debate? There is most certainly an ongoing debate. Here is James Hansen and here is a rebuttal to James Hansen. Here is a debate archived for your listening pleasure.

by Twba on 06/13/2007 05:52:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I posted there is no debate . But I should have posted. Those trying to debate the undeniable facts at this juncture are either  in denial or working for the oil companies.

The top climate scientist at NASA says the Bush administration has tried to stop him from speaking out since he gave a lecture last month calling for prompt reductions in emissions of greenhouse gases linked to global warming.""

There is no debate about that either

--- Truth To Power

by Leeberal on 06/13/2007 06:03:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]
There is no debate about that either

A NASA scientist who said the Bush administration muzzled him because of his belief in global warming yesterday acknowledged to Congress that he'd done more than 1,400 on-the-job interviews in recent years.

Of course there is a debate about that. Hansen has been giving interviews almost constantly. That is hardly the definition of muzzled.

by Twba on 06/13/2007 06:19:57 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Those trying to debate the undeniable facts...

Please enlighten me about these undeniable facts.

by Twba on 06/13/2007 06:34:50 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You are ideologically blinded to basic facts.

I suspect you are basing this statement on the mistaken belief that I am a knuckle dragging, flat earth, right wing zealot who has no knowledge of science. Please explain how this fits into your global warming worldview of left wing and wrong wing.

by Twba on 06/14/2007 10:42:02 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Earth is warming. Mars is warming. Jupiter is warming. Neptune is warming. What do all these planets have in common?

They're all DOOMED. 

by OneHitKill on 06/09/2007 05:33:19 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The guy works for NASA.  As such, I value his opinion on the subject over the "facts" of anyone who participates on this forum, no offense.  But my days of stopping CO2 addicts from giving their cars' tailpipes oral pleasure are over.  God bless and go forward.  Equal rights for all.

by OneHitKill on 06/09/2007 05:32:07 AM EST

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