The Young Turks: Who caused the financial meltdown?

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Who caused the financial meltdown?

posted by KenTX 10/10/2008 02:33:50 PM EST

I’m not going to offer editorial comment. I will simply post a YouTube video of a series of congressional hearings that occurred in December 2004.

Here are the stars of the video:

Franklin Delano Raines (Fannie Mae CEO and Clinton Cabinet Member)

Bill Clinton (D-AR)

Barney Frank (D-MA)

Chris Dodd (D-CT)

Gregory Meeks (D-MD)

Maxine Waters (D-CA)

Artur Davis (D-AL)

Lacy Clay (D-MO)

< At this point, does it really matter who wins? | I am ready to debate with African Americans or any race who still support McCain/Palin >

Who caused the financial meltdown? | 60 comments (60 topical, 0 hidden)

KenTX (5.00 / 2)

Gregory Meeks is a Democrat from NY, not MD, as KenTX writes. I guess that error of fact invalidates his entire post.

By the way KenTX, I am with you. I love government regulation and oversight of the private sector, just like you. That's why you and I both vote Republican all the time. Republicans think that government regulators can do the job better than the free market, and they are right, as usual.
I wish the rest of the liberals on this site would understand that.

David

by yturks on 10/10/2008 10:09:16 PM EST

: I'm sorry Dave. (none / 0)

I sometimes confuse Albert Wynn (D-MD) with Gregory Meeks (D-NY).

Over the next two years, the public will be treated to much more face time from various members of the Congressional Black Caucus on the various cable news outlets. The purpose of this thread is to get all participants lathered up and prepared for things to come.

I need to come up with a system to keep the names straight. How about baseball cards, or Baathist playing cards?

by KenTX on 10/10/2008 11:16:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Republicans. (none / 0)

You asked, I answered. You're welcome.

Add Chris Buckley to the growing list of conservatives that can't stomach Sarah Palin, and will therefore vote for Obama. You could learn something from him:

"Obama has in him--I think, despite his sometimes airy-fairy "We are the people we have been waiting for" silly rhetoric--the potential to be a good, perhaps even great leader. He is, it seems clear enough, what the historical moment seems to be calling for.

"So, I wish him all the best. We are all in this together. Necessity is the mother of bipartisanship. And so, for the first time in my life, I'll be pulling the Democratic lever in November. As the saying goes, God save the United States of America."

by hazmat on 10/10/2008 03:32:47 PM EST

economists don't agree with you ken (none / 0)

http://www.acton.org/commen tary/425_greed_hurts.php

matter of fact, economists will even point out your precious Sarbanes-Oxley Act that you're waiting to throw back at us as another cause of these problems. The republicans' sorry excuse for regulation made this problem worse.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/10/2008 03:49:55 PM EST

None of the Above (none / 0)

The complete answer is the theory of trickle-down economics that was introduced by the Reagan administration, or Reaganomics.

But the specific problem that finally caused the collapse (there are other problems brewing, but this was the one that blew first) was the direct result of the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000.

So your list really ought to be the following:

Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX)
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ)
Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN)
Sen. Peter Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE)
Sen. Thomas Harkin (D-IA)
Sen. Tim Johnson (D-SD)
Rep. Thomas W. Ewing (R-IL)
Rep. Thomas J. Bliley, Jr. (R-VA)
Rep. Larry Combest (R-TX)
Rep. John J. LaFalce (D-NY)
Rep. Jim Leach (R-IA)

This is the list of people who ultimately caused the demise of American Capitalism. They should all be put in prison for treason.

You can also place some of the blame on Bill Clinton for not vetoing the bill. But in Clinton's defense, this bill passed after Bush Jr. was elected. Had Clinton refused to sign, the bill would have just been signed the next month by the Shrub.

by rbruck on 10/10/2008 04:09:04 PM EST

: Great info, but... (none / 0)

...my FAVORITE was "The Shrub." I'll be using that ALOT because it caused me to LOL!!!

by tifosies on 10/11/2008 04:23:10 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Meltdown (none / 0)

This is the last nail in the coffin of Ronald Reagan. The S&L disaster, Enron disaster, and now this is three strikes and you're out. Too much "Free Market" leads to greed and income inequality, wrong when we need a strong wealthy general populace to support the economy. I might credit Reagan for the cold war resolution (maybe with some better intelligence we would have known how weak the Russians really were - but the military-industrial group then wouldn't have gotten all their military spending so maybe they did know but ignored it). Everyone who tries to say let the government get out of the way will be shouted down with rembember 2008. Where was the personal responsibility crowd when they were pushing out the toxic mortgages? Which party runs up enormous defiicits? Which party is worst for the stock markets? We now have even more answers... Reagan may be turning over in his grave but it was his policies glorified that caused this mess and many others. Good bye Ron. Good riddance.

by stanski on 10/10/2008 07:35:09 PM EST

you know it's burnin ken up inside (none / 0)

he wants to respond so bad...

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/10/2008 07:51:54 PM EST

Is it just me (none / 0)

or has Ken lost his vigor? He took that long hiatus a week ago, and since then he's never quite gotten back to true form.

by Spencer on 10/10/2008 08:21:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Ken is a broken man (none / 0)

I like to believe he has come to realize that McPalin would be disastrous for his country, which I believe he loves.

by ProfRich on 10/11/2008 12:24:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Accidental Presidents (none / 0)

Sarah Palin might have made a better president than all the other candidates.

Accidental presidents are always better than power mad presidents who achieve office as a result of enormous lifelong ambition.

The kid in this photo has been scheming for the job his entire life. He is not a good choice.

Likewise, this kid had overwhelming drive and ambition, but he wasn’t able to accomplish a damn thing during eight years in office.

This guy wanted the job so badly, he was willing to do anything to get it.

At 55 years of age, and his only lifelong ambition was to serve his country.
ike

This middle-aged man is having a career crisis. At this point, he never dreamed that one day, historians would consider him one of the greatest presidents in American history.
ronnie

This guy became president through sheer dumb luck. He didn't do too badly.
truman

by KenTX on 10/11/2008 01:18:27 AM EST

[ Parent ]

thankfully we'll never find out (none / 0)

by desertpear on 10/11/2008 01:55:18 AM EST

[ Parent ]

I notice you're speaking in the past tense. (none / 0)

Also, it kills me that conservatives claim that Clinton did nothing, and at the same time blame him for everything that goes wrong.

by Spencer on 10/11/2008 02:29:31 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Reagan's Historians (none / 0)

If Reagan HAD dreamed that historians would consider him one of the greatest Presidents in history, those dreams would have been fantisies.

This is how Historians view Reagan:

Reagan was one of the most out-of-touch Presidents in history. He had NO IDEA what was going on in his administration. When the Iran-Contra affair went down, nobody ever expected that Reagan had anything to do with it, because everybody knew that Reagan wasn't much involved in running the country.
Reagan will be known as the instigator of neocon economic policies that came close to destroying capitalism in 2008, 28 years after he was elected. This legacy probably isn't fair because Reagan had no idea what was going on, and knew nothing about the economy. The people who were actually running the country during Reagan's terms are really to blame, but Reagan will take the heat in the history books because he was sitting in the Oval Office.

by rbruck on 10/11/2008 01:32:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Ken is turning into acroso (none / 0)

He is just getting worse and worse.

This post is complete gibberish.

Reagan ran for president, like three times, and Ken thinks it was an accident he got elected? This is just stupid.

When was the first guy president?

I guess I need my special Sean Hannity Decoder Ring to make sense out of this post.

by ProfRich on 10/12/2008 01:22:04 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Ronald Reagan (none / 0)

He was still doing Death Valley Days on television when he was ten years older than Barack Obama is today.
reagan

He entered politics in 1968 (at the age of 57!), and he was considered a joke B-movie has-been actor. He was elected Governor of California, and president 12 years later. That's a whirlwind journey from small parts to the role of a lifetime.

By contrast, Obama has wanted the presidency since the first grade.

by KenTX on 10/12/2008 02:28:59 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Softball Alert! (none / 0)

So you're saying one of your favorite Presidents didn't have much experience.

Palin in 2012? Bitch, please! No, really, please run in 2012, bitch. ;)

by richardshort2001 on 10/12/2008 02:32:25 AM EST

[ Parent ]

This still makes no sense (none / 0)

So Reagan was a fucktard for 57 years then spent 13 years trying to get his dumb ass elected?

What about his election as head of SAG or whatever? Wasn't that political?

Plus he was a shitty president.

As far as accidental presidents, here is a dose of reality. The most accidental presidents ever:

Ford- sucked

Tyler- sucked GIANT DONKEY BALLS

Arthur- forgettably shitty

Filmore- who?

A. Johnson- really shitty

TR- pretty good pres, accidentally ascended but ambitious as all hell

I didn't run through the whole list but that is a good start

What do you mean by accidental? Lacking ambition to be president? Have you not seen Palin's church videos? This woman believes she is meant to lead us all. I think you are confusing "lacking any ability to lead" with "lacking any ambition to lead".

Anyone who thinks Reagan did not aspire to be president is a moron.

by ProfRich on 10/12/2008 02:25:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]

great picture Ken (none / 0)

Back when Ronny was taking this picture he was a hollywood liberal advocating for the middle class like a patriotic American. He was a big fan of FDR and entitlement programs. I wish more people would take Reagan's advice to heart.

by hazmat on 10/13/2008 06:44:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]

ps (none / 0)

as this clip unequivocally demonstrates, Reagan did not wait until he was 57! to enter politics. The clip is from 1948. Ken has officially been schooled by hazmat for the 26,497th time! I'm just trying to keep you informed little buddy.

by hazmat on 10/13/2008 06:46:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]

You guys are too young to remember. (none / 0)

Ronald Reagan’s career on Death Valley Days began in 1965, at the age of 54.

Ronald Reagan’s career on Death Valley Days ended in 1968, at the age of 57.

During this period, when he was approaching the age of 60, and he was selling Borateem Laundry Detergent, there is no evidence that he was planning a run for president.

Now that's what I call a random or accidental president.

by KenTX on 10/14/2008 05:04:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]

reread my post please (none / 0)

do you define a political career as running for office or would you include the years spent advocating public policy as a member of the well-heeled political class in hollywood. Clearly Reagan had aspirations to a life in public service long before you claim. It just seemed convenient for him (and Bill Buckley probably helped in this regard) to run as a conservative. What an opportunist. McCain is sure doing him proud. By the way have you read Chris Buckley's endorsement of Obama? Its quite good.

by hazmat on 10/14/2008 05:29:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]

prove this statement (none / 0)

"Clearly Reagan had aspirations to a life in public service long before you claim."

Somebody help the young boy.

Reagan's only aspiration was a job. That's why he was selling soap for U.S. Borax, and light bulbs for GE. If Ronald Reagan had political aspirations prior to age 57, all he had to do was run for Congress. He had plenty of friends with money who could have backed him.

Hell, even Sonny Bono won a congressional seat.
the beat goes on

So did Gopher.
gopher

So did Cooter.
cooter

by KenTX on 10/14/2008 05:44:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]

when you learn to read (none / 0)

we can stop these threads earlier. I linked you a youtube of Reagan campaigning for truman in 1948, a full 20 years before you claim he became involved in politics. Its not just a celebrity endorsement either. Its a full 4 minute screed against the GOP. When you get an imagination and some reading glasses you can check back in with me. I'll be waiting.

by hazmat on 10/14/2008 05:56:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I'm the one who brought up Reagan. (none / 0)

Remember? So I'm the person who defined the original argument. Here it is again. Try to follow along this time.

Ronald Reagan had zero political aspirations until the 1960s, when he was approaching the age of 60. While he was making a movie with a fucking monkey named Bonzo, he probably wasn't thinking "You know, this film is guaranteed to get me into the White House some day. But just to make sure, I'm gonna start working on the remake, Son of Bonzo." If he wanted to get into politics in the 1950s, when he was an middle-aged has been actor, all he had to do was run for office.

End. Of. Fucking. Story.

Do you understand it now?

Do you have any proof to the contrary?

I'm waiting.

I'm waiting.

I'm still waiting.

by KenTX on 10/14/2008 06:54:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I just showed it to you. (none / 0)

Reagan was heavily involved in politics in 1948. Its no thinner than a photograph of a college age Clinton shaking hands with Kennedy. If you won't accept my irrefutable evidence, that's your deal. You can stick your fingers in your ears and jump up and down if you want, but you've lost, sorry. I almost feel bad for you. Almost.

Now that we've established unequivocally that you are sadly misguided with regards to Mr. Reagan's lifelong ambitions, can you tell me why I should care? I put more stock in good governance than motivation. I really don't think any politician, especially Reagan, is beyond scrutiny. Would you argue that John McCain hasn't aspired to higher office for 40 years?

Honestly, I don't think it diminishes John McCain in any way to say that he did. But that's just me.

by hazmat on 10/14/2008 07:58:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Three problems with your "evidence" (none / 0)

1. It makes Reagan look like less than Superman by showing he was an opportunist whose ideology swayed with the breeze, so it doesn't count.

2. It happened before 9/11, and 9/11 changed everything, so it doesn't count.

3. Most importantly, it disproves what KenTX is saying, so it doesn't count.

Try harder.

Palin in 2012? Bitch, please! No, really, please run in 2012, bitch. ;)

by richardshort2001 on 10/15/2008 11:39:00 AM EST

[ Parent ]

: thank you (none / 0)

I'm glad that you're choosing the high road and being nice to Ken as his world comes crashing down around him.

by hazmat on 10/15/2008 01:17:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Ken (none / 1)

You lost and the more you run your yap the stupider you look.

Give it up buddy and throw out that

old

recycled

post.

Who says that conservatives hate to recycle?

by z1p101 on 10/14/2008 08:12:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]

good work (none / 0)

I know I've seen that post before, but I'm too lazy to dig'em up. Three bows to zippy.

by hazmat on 10/14/2008 09:01:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Zippy didn't offer up much of an argument, (none / 0)

but it was certainly superior to the lame point you were trying to make about Ronald Reagan planning his run for the White House while filming Hellcats of the Navy.

by KenTX on 10/14/2008 10:32:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Keep yappin (none / 0)

we will keep laughing.

by z1p101 on 10/14/2008 10:51:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]

question for zippy (none / 0)

Didn't you vote for Reagan? Twice?

by KenTX on 10/14/2008 11:39:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: Answer (none / 0)

No.
I didn't vote for the other guys either. Go ahead gum shoe and try to figure out why.
What does that have to do whith the conversation anyway?

by z1p101 on 10/15/2008 07:44:34 AM EST

[ Parent ]

This would be a great point (none / 0)

If Reagan was elected in 1968

by ProfRich on 10/15/2008 12:01:30 AM EST

[ Parent ]

This is why we need Tim!!!!! (none / 0)

Goddammit Tim! You were living in California in 1968. Explain to these young numbskulls what a joke it was for Reagan to run for Governor. It would be like Richard Gere saying he just decided to run for Senate. Don't you guys remember the scene in Back To The Future when Michael J Fox tells the Professor that Ronald Reagan will be President in the future, and he replies "And I suppose the VP is Jack Benny!".

by KenTX on 10/15/2008 12:22:33 AM EST

[ Parent ]

No one is arguing that (none / 1)

Clearly Ronnie Reagan was a complete jerkoff and not a serious or competent choice for president.

What you tried to argue and what we are arguing is whether he was amibtionless.

If we are talking about slapdicks who had no business being president lets make that list:

Reagan

Ford

Bush (II)

Wanna throw Carter in there, ok. I won't stand for Ike being in that bunch.

by ProfRich on 10/15/2008 01:33:28 AM EST

[ Parent ]

I'm talking about when history chooses the man. (none / 0)

Not when the man chooses the job.

LBJ, Clinton, Nixon, GHW Bush wanted to be president since age five.

I just saw a PBS American Experience on Jimmah Carter, and was surprised to learn that he also had a lifelong ambition to be president.

These guys had another thing in common. They sucked.

I can guarantee you that at the advanced age 55, Eisenhower and Reagan were not making plans to become president. They we're even politicians at the time.

by KenTX on 10/15/2008 03:36:20 AM EST

[ Parent ]

How did history choose Reagan? (none / 0)

He ran, what, three times?

This still makes no sense.

And "history chose" Ford. And he sucked. "History chose" Taylor and he is among the worst ever. "History chose" Andrew Johnson. Another of the worst. If you think about it, by your definition "History chose" Bush (II). Talk about not aspiring to be president. According to the Reagan standard Bush is definitely more accidental. He ran only once (as opposed to three times) and became president six years after beginning his political career (as opposed to 12). If you look at his pre-governor career, its pretty hard to conclude this was a man dying to be president.

Ken, pay attention now. This is why you end up looking foolish. You take some personal belief you have (Reagan is a God and you like the myth of him having the presidency thrust upon him) and try to warp all of US history to fit your own opinions. It never works. You might consider stopping it.

by ProfRich on 10/15/2008 10:04:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]

: Gerry Ford and Andrew Johnson (none / 0)

These guys are two more good examples of lifelong politicians who made horrible presidents. Johnson got into politics at the age of 20, and Ford entered politics when he returned from WWII.

Guys like LBJ, Nixon, Clinton are good at playing the game and advancing their political careers. But they usually make terrible presidents.

The best presidents are natural leaders like George Washington and Ike Eisenhower, not natural politicians like LBJ and Nixon.
by KenTX on 10/15/2008 12:49:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]

oh geez (none / 0)

Something Obama said in first grade now? Probably 30% of boys in first grade want to be president, little egotistical shits. The rest astronauts.

by desertpear on 10/13/2008 09:33:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]

As a boy, it breaks down like this: (none / 0)

30% president, 30% astronaut, 39% Spider-Man, 1% all three.

by Spencer on 10/14/2008 02:39:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]

you forgot "gynecologist" (none / 0)

It's just that they are still calling it "doctor" in first grade.

by desertpear on 10/14/2008 03:39:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: everyone should have a goal (none / 0)

I once knew a gynecologist in Arlington, Texas who passed out discount cards at gentlemen clubs in the DFW metroplex. He told me he was trying to upgrade his clientele. How he maintained his license after this stunt is beyond me.
by KenTX on 10/14/2008 04:52:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
: Yes (none / 0)

That's the silent majority.

by Spencer on 10/14/2008 05:14:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]

If those are my choices (none / 0)

Spider-Man. Not even close.

by ProfRich on 10/14/2008 11:52:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Not President Spiderman? (none / 0)

by desertpear on 10/15/2008 02:16:52 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Not in these times pear. (none / 0)

It would be too hard for Spidey to clean up this mess. Webbing is useless against stagflation.

by Spencer on 10/15/2008 05:40:30 AM EST

[ Parent ]

: oh boy (none / 0)

do I have a cool spider video for an open thread. I've been conversing with a tarantula keeper.
what kind of godless human beings are up at this hour anyway?

by desertpear on 10/15/2008 05:57:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]

I love you pear (none / 0)

but the idea of Spider-Man as president is just silly.

The whole story is that he has is hated and an outcast. yet still he insists on being heroic. If he became popular enough to be president, no thanks.

by ProfRich on 10/15/2008 10:46:23 AM EST

[ Parent ]

My psychic ability returns (none / 0)

Yes once again I was able to perform like Carnac the Magnificent and answer the question before reading the post.

Now I admit I didn’t have all the names but I knew Bill Clinton and other Democrats would ultimately be responsible.

It’s getting a little spooky, Ken asks a question and somehow I just KNOW Bill Clinton will be in the answer.

Before anyone begins to worry, I vow I will only use these mysterious powers for good

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

by Hubble on 10/10/2008 10:00:30 PM EST

: wow (none / 0)

Maybe you should be tested for your ESPN abilities.

by bfaul on 10/15/2008 10:13:02 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Ken Ken Ken (none / 0)

You are so stuck in the past. Let's talk about who's going to fix it, shall we?

by desertpear on 10/10/2008 10:54:18 PM EST

That lady in green (none / 0)

is clearly trying to sneeze on him. And the lady in blue has some dust on her boob. Here, let me get that for ya...

by Spencer on 10/11/2008 02:31:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]

strategy (none / 0)

"dust" could perhaps be "brushed" off, but if it just might be a "spider," one would have cause to be more careful, look more closely, and accidentally pinch the nipple when extracting from the fibers.

by desertpear on 10/11/2008 04:19:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]

People are starving. Which I hate. (none / 0)

It's a cookie crumb. Eat it off.

by OneHitKill on 10/11/2008 11:36:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]