How Many Nobel Prize Winning Economists Oppose Barack Obama's Economic Proposals?

Email Print posted by Twba 10/10/2008 07:29:03 AM EST

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Barack Obama argues that his proposals to raise tax rates and halt international trade agreements would benefit the American economy. They would do nothing of the sort. Economic analysis and historical experience show that they would do the opposite. They would reduce economic growth and decrease the number of jobs in America. Moreover, with the credit crunch, the housing slump, and high energy prices weakening the U.S. economy, his proposals run a high risk of throwing the economy into a deep recession. It was exactly such misguided tax hikes and protectionism, enacted when the U.S. economy was weak in the early 1930s, that greatly increased the severity of the Great Depression.

We are very concerned with Barack Obama's opposition to trade agreements such as the pending one with Colombia, the new one with Central America, or the established one with Canada and Mexico. Exports from the United States to other countries create jobs for Americans. Imports make goods available to Americans at lower prices and are a particular benefit to families and individuals with low incomes. International trade is also a powerful source of strength in a weak economy. In the second quarter of this year, for example, increased international trade did far more to stimulate the U.S. economy than the federal government's "stimulus" package.

Ironically, rather than supporting international trade, Barack Obama is now proposing yet another so-called stimulus package, which would do very little to grow the economy. And his proposal to finance the package with higher taxes on oil would raise oil prices directly and by reducing exploration and production.

We are equally concerned with his proposals to increase tax rates on labor income and investment. His dividend and capital gains tax increases would reduce investment and cut into the savings of millions of Americans. His proposals to increase income and payroll tax rates would discourage the formation and expansion of small businesses and reduce employment and take-home pay, as would his mandates on firms to provide expensive health insurance.

After hearing such economic criticism of his proposals, Barack Obama has apparently suggested to some people that he might postpone his tax increases, perhaps to 2010. But it is a mistake to think that postponing such tax increases would prevent their harmful effect on the economy today. The prospect of such tax rate increases in 2010 is already a drag on the economy. Businesses considering whether to hire workers today and expand their operations have time horizons longer than a year or two, so the prospect of higher taxes starting in 2009 or 2010 reduces hiring and investment in 2008.

In sum, Barack Obama's economic proposals are wrong for the American economy. They defy both economic reason and economic experience.

Adams, Richard M.    Oregon State University

Adie, Douglas K.    Ohio University

Agnello, Richard    University of Delaware

Ahiakpor, James C.W.    California State University, East Bay

Albrecht, William    University of Iowa

Alexander, Donald L.    Western Michigan University

Alexander, Gordon J.    University of Minnesota

Alpert, William    University of Connecticut

Alvarez, Fernando E.    University of Chicago

Amacher, Ryan C.    The University of Texas at Arlington

Andron, Geoffrey    Austin Community College

Armey, Richard K.    Freedom Works

Azevedo, Christopher  &nbs p; University of Central Missouri

Back, Kerry    Texas A&M University

Banaian, King    St. Cloud State University

Barro, Robert    Harvard University

Basciano, Peter M.    Augusta State University

Beck, Stacie E.    University of Delaware

Becker, Gary    University of Chicago

Belcher, Larry    Stetson University

Bellante, Donald    University of South Florida

Bender, Bruce    University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Berry, Anne    Former economist, Council of Economic Advisers

Bethune, John J.    Barton College

Bhagat, Sanjai    University of Colorado

Biggs, Andrew G.    American Enterprise Institute

Bise, Robert G.    Orange Coast College

Block, Michael K.    University of Arizona

Blomberg, Brock    Claremont McKenna College

Bohanon, Cecil    Ball State University

Bonilla, Carlos    The Washington Group

Booth, Donald    Chapman University

Borden, Karl J.    University of Nebraska

Bordo, Michael    Rutgers University

Borts, George H.    Brown University

Boskin, Michael    Stanford University

Botsas, Eleftherios  &nbs p; Oakland University

Boyd, John H.    University of Minnesota

Brannon, Ike    McCain-Palin 2008

Broussard, John Paul    Rutgers

Brown Jr., George F.    Blue Canyon Partners, Inc.

Brust, Peter    University of Tampa

Buchanan, James    George Mason University

Buchholz, Todd    Two Oceans Management

Butkiewicz, James L.    University of Delaware

Calabria, Mark    United States Senate

Calomiris, Charles    Columbia University

Carey, Robert T.    Clemson University

Cargill, Thomas F.    University of Nevada, Reno

Carter, James    Vienna, VA

Cebula, Richard J.    Armstrong Atlantic State University

Chance, Don    Louisiana State University

Chilton, Kenneth W.    Lindenwood University

Chiswick, Barry R.    University of Illinois at Chicago

Chiswick, Carmel U.    University of Illinois at Chicago

Choi, K    Iowa State University

Cima, Lawrence R.    John Carroll University

Cochran, John P.    Metropolitan State College of Denver

Cogan, John    Hoover Institution

Collinge, Robert    University of Texas at San Antonio

Colwell, Peter F.    University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign

Connolly, Michael    University of Miami

Cooper, Kathleen B.    Southern Methodist University

Cordato, Roy    The John Locke Foundation

Costrell, Robert M.    University of Arkansas

Couch, Jim F.    University of North Alabama

Covey, Ted    McLean, Virginia

Crain, Nicole V.    Lafayette College

Crawford, Anthony J.    University of Montana

Crippen, Dan    Former CBO Director

Crocker, Thomas D.    University of Wyoming

Crouch, Robert L.    University of California, Santa Barbara

Crucini, Mario J.    Vanderbilt University

Curran, Ward S.    Trinity College

Dammon, Robert M.    Carnegie Mellon University

Daniel III, Coldwell    The Univerity of Memphis

Danielsen, Albert L.    University of Georgia

Davis, Ronnie H.    Florida Institute of Technology

Davis, Steve    University of Chicago

Day, Richard H.    University of Southern California

Deitsch, Clarence R.    Ball State University

DeMuth, Christopher  &nbs p; American Enterprise Institute

Dewald, William G.    Ohio State University

Diamond Jr., Arthur M.    University of Nebraska at Omaha

Diebold, Francis X.    University of Pennsylvania

Dougan, William    Clemson University

Douglas, Christopher  &nbs p; University of Michigan, Flint

Duncan, Floyd H.    The Virginia Military Institute

Duncan, Joseph W.    Micro Mite

Dunlevy, James A.    Miami University

Ebenstein, Lanny    University of California, Santa Barbara

Eckalbar, John    California State University, Chico

Egan, Francis J.    Trinity College

Egger, John B.    Towson University

Ehrlich, Isaac    SUNY at Buffalo

Eichenbaum, Martin    Northwestern University

Eickhoff-Smith, M. Kathryn    Eickhoff Economics Inc

Ellis, Michael A.    Kent State University

Elyasiani, Elyas    Temple University

Ericson, Richard E.    East Carolina University

Eubanks, Larry S.    University of Colorado at Colorado Springs

Evans, Paul    Ohio State University

Falaschetti, Dino     FSU College of Law and Hoover Institution

Falero Jr., Frank    California State University

Fama, Eugene F.    University of Chicago

Farr, Dorsey D.    French Wolf & Farr

Farr, W. Ken    Georgia College & State University

Feenberg, Dan    NBER

Feigenbaum, Susan K.    University of Missouri, St. Louis

Feldstein, Martin    Harvard University

Fisher, Eric    California Polytechnic State University

Flanegin, Frank R.    Robert Morris University

Fleisher III, Arthur A "Trey"    Metro State College of Denver

Fleming, Garry    Roanoke College

Flint, Harold D.    Montclair State University

Foo, Jennifer    Stetson University

Forbes, Kristin    MIT

Ford, William F.    Middle Tenn. State U.

Frank, Murray Z.    University of Minnesota

Froeb, Luke    Vanderbilt University

Fuerst, Timothy S.    Bowling Green State University

Furchtgott-Roth, Diana    Hudson Institute

Gallegos, Alejandro    Winona State University

Gardner, B Delworth    Brigham Young University

Garthoff, Dave    The University of Akron

Gellman, Aaron J.    Northwestern University

Genetski, Robert    Classicalprinciples.com

Giacalone, Joseph A.    St. John's University

Gifford, Adam    California State University, Northridge

Gillette, David    Truman State University

Gilley, Otis W.    Louisiana Tech University

Gisser, Micha    University of New Mexico

Gissy, William    Kennesaw State University

Glahe, Fred R.    University of Colorado, Boulder

Glass, Amy Jocelyn    Texas A&M University

Glauber, Robert    Harvard University

Gombola, Michael    Drexel University

Gonzalez, Rudy    San Jose State University

Gonzalez-Vega, Claudio    The Ohio State University

Graham, Daniel    Duke University

Graham, J. Edward    University of North Carolina, Wilmington

Grant, Richard    Lipscomb University

Graves, Philip E.    University of Colorado

Greene, Kenneth    Binghamton University

Gregory, Paul    University of Houston

Grinols, Earl    Baylor University

Hafer, Rik    Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville

Hakim, Simon    Temple University

Hansen, Gary    UCLA

Hanushek, Eric    Hoover Institution

Hartley, James E.    Mount Holyoke College

Hassett, Kevin    American Enterprise Institute

Hauge, Janice A.    University of North Texas

Heidt, Robert H.    Indiana University School of Law

Helms, Robert B.    American Enterprise Institute

Helvacian, N. Mike    MNH Consulting

Henderson, James W.    Baylor University

Hochman, Harold M.    CUNY Graduate Center and Lafayette College

Hodrick, Robert J.    Columbia Business School

Holen, Arlene    Technology Policy Institute

Holloway, Milton L.    Resource Economics, Inc.

Holtz-Eakin, Douglas    McCain-Palin 2008

Howrey, E. Philip    University of Michigan

Hubbard, Glenn    Columbia University

Huffman, Forrest E.    Temple University

Huffman, James L.    Lewis & Clark Law School

Humphrey, David    Florida State University

Inama, Chris    Golden Gate University

Ireland, Thomas R.    University of Missouri-St. Louis

Irvine, Owen    Michigan State University

Jadlow, Joseph M.    Oklahoma State University

Jarrell, Sherry L    Wake Forest University

Jensen, Gerald R.    Northern Illinois University

Jensen, Mike    Harvard University

Just, Richard E.    University of Maryland

Kaplan, Steven    University of Chicago

Kennedy, Joe    Arlington, VA

Kent, Calvin A.    Marshall University

King, Robert    Boston University

Kohn, Meir    Dartmouth College

Kolari, James W.    Texas A&M University

Kosters, Marvin    American Enterprise Institute

Krol, Robert    California State University, Northridge

Krueger, Anne    Johns Hopkins University

Krupp, Cory    Duke University

Laird, William E.    Florida State University

Lal, Deepak    University of California, Los Angeles

Landau, Daniel L    University of Connecticut

Lash, Nicholas A.    Loyola University

Lefton, Norman B.    Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville

Leisenring, Carol    University of Pennsylvania

Lenard, Thomas M.    Technology Policy Institute

Lephardt, Noreen E.    Marquette University

Lerrick, Adam    Carnegie Mellon University and the American Enterprise Institute

Levy, Phil    American Enterprise Institute

Lewis, W. Cris    Utah State University

Lindsey, Larry    The Lindsey Group

Lipford, Jody W.    Presbyterian College

Lothian, James R.    Fordham University

Lott Jr., John R.    University of Maryland

Luskin, Donald L.    Trend Macrolytics LLC

Lyman, R. Ashley    University of Idaho

MacAvoy, Paul W.    Yale School of Management

MacDonald, Glenn    Washington University in St. Louis

Makin, John    American Enterprise Institute

Malkiel, Burton    Princeton University

Maltsev, Yuri N.    Carthage College

Manne, Henry G.    George Mason University

Marshall, Donald J.    National Petroleum Council

Marshall, Jennings B.    Samford University

Mateer, Robert N.    Liberty University

Mathews, Timothy    Kennesaw State University

Matsusaka, John    University of Southern California

Mayers, David    University of California, Riverside

McArthur, John    Wofford College

McCallum, Bennett    Carnegie Mellon University

McCracken, Paul W.     University of Michigan

McMillin, W. Douglas    Louisiana State University

McQuillan, Lawrence    Pacific Research Institute

Meiselman, David I.    Virginia Tech

Melick, Will    Kenyon College

Meltzer, Allan    Carnegie Mellon University

Mendoza, Enrique G.    University of Maryland-College Park

Mietus, Jim    Great Falls, VA

Milbourn, Todd    Washington University in St. Louis

Miller, Dan    Arlington, VA

Miller, James    George Mason University

Miller, Tom    American Enterprise Institute

Miranda, Mario J.    The Ohio State University

Mobius, Markus    Harvard University

Montgomery, Michael R.    University of Maine

Moore, Michael    George Washington University

Morgan, Paul L.    Westmont College

Moulin, Herve    Rice University

Mundell, Robert    Columbia University

Muris, Tim    George Mason University

Murphy, Jim    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Murphy, Kevin    University of Southern California

Murray, John E.    University of Toledo

Musgrave, Frank    Ithaca College

Muth, Richard F.    Emory University

Myers, Steven C.    The University of Akron

Nelson, Charles    University of Washington

Neumann, George R.    The University of Iowa

Nieberding, James F.    Consulting Economist

Niskanen, Bill    Cato Institute

Ohanian, Lee E.    UCLA

O'Neill, James    University of Delaware

O'Neill, June    Baruch College, CUNY

Ortega, Lydia    San Jose State University

Oswald, Donald J.    California State University, Bakersfield

OToole, Cathleen    California State University, Chico

O'Toole, James    California State University, Chico

Padelford, Walton    Union University

Parente, Steve    University of Minnesota

Parker, Randall    East Carolina University

Patton, Judd W.    Bellevue University

Perri, Tim    Appalachian State University

Perry, Mark J.    University of Michigan-Flint

Philipson, Tomas    University of Chicago

Phillips, G. Michael    California State University, Northridge

Pingle, Mark    University of Nevada, Reno

Pongracic, Ivan    Hillsdale College

Pongsree, Saharat "Oak"    Wesley College

Poole, William    University of Delaware

Porter, Michael E.    Harvard University

Poulson, Barry    Univerity of Colorado Boulder

Prescott, Edward    Arizona State University

Prieger, James    Pepperdine University

Protopapadakis, Aris    University of Southern California

Pruitt, Stephen W.    University of Missouri, Kansas City

Rahn, Richard W.    Institute for Global Economic Growth

Ramey, Valerie    University of California, San Diego

Reid Jr., Joseph D.    George Mason University

Reiland, Ralph R.    Robert Morris University

Rhee, Thomas A.    California State University, Long Beach

Ries, Christine P.    Georgia Institute of Technology

Roberts, Nancy H.    Arizona State University

Rogoff, Kenneth    Harvard University

Roll, Richard    UCLA

Rosen, Harvey    Princeton University

Ross, Larry L.    University of Alaska, Anchorage

Rossana, Robert    Wayne State University

Rothman, Philip    East Carolina University

Rowley, Charles    George Mason University

Rubin, Paul H.    Emory University

Ruffin, Roy    University of Houston

Rush, Mark    University of Florida

Sandy, Jonathan    University of San Diego

Santoni, Gary J.    Ball State University

Saving, Tom    Texas A&M University

Schaefer, Kurt C.    Calvin College

Schuyler, Mike    Institute for Research on the Economics of Taxation

Schwartz, Anna    NBER

Scott, Robert Haney    California State University, Chico

Seater, John J.    North Carolina State University

Seeley, Robert    Wilkes University

Selden, Richard    University of Virginia

Shakoori, Ken    California State University, Bakersfield

Shalit, Sol S.     University of Wisconsin

Shapiro, Alan    University of Southern California

Shaw, James    University of San Francisco

Shughart II, William F.    The University of Mississippi

Shultz, George    Stanford University

Simos, Evangelos    University of New Hampshire

Smart, Scott B.    Indiana University

Smith, Amy    Former OMB Chief Economist

Smith, James F.    The University of North Carolina

Smith, Richard L.    University of California. Riverside

Smith, Vernon    Chapman University

Snaith, Sean M.    University of Central Florida

Sontheimer, Kevin    University of Pittsburgh

Soule, Pete    Park University

Spatt, Chester    Carnegie Mellon University

Spencer, David    Brigham Young University

Sprinkel, Beryl W.    Former Chair Council of Economic Advisers

Stephenson, Craig A.    Babson College

Stimel, Derek    Menlo College

Stokes, Houston    University of Illinois at Chicago

Stone, Courtenay C.    Ball State University

Suchanek, Gerry L.    University of Iowa

Sumner, Dan    University of California, Davis

Sweeney, Richard    Georgetown University

Tamura, Robert    Clemson University

Tatom, John A.    Indiana State University

Taylor, John    Stanford University

Telser, Lester    University of Chicago

Tharp, Teresa    Valencia Community College

Thompson, Henry    Auburn University

Timberlake, Richard    University of Georgia

Tolbert Jr., Stephen A.    Harrisburg Area Community College

Tollison, Robert D    Clemson University

Tower, Edward    Duke University

Trivitt, Julie    Arkansas Tech University

Troy, Leo    Rutgers University

Tuerck, David G.    Suffolk University

Upadhyaya, Kamal    University of New Haven

VanHoose, David    Baylor University

Vedder, Richard    Ohio University

Wagner, Richard E.    George Mason University

Walker, Donald A.    Indiana University of Pennsylvania

Walstad, William B.    University of Nebraska

Ward, Ronald W.    University of Florida

Waters, Alan Rufus    California State University, Fresno

Watkins, Thayer    San Jose State University

Weber, Chris    Seattle University

Weidenbaum, Murray    Washington University in St. Louis

Whittaker, J. Gregg    William Jewell College

Wicks, John    University of Montana

Williams, Michael E.    University of Denver

Wills, Douglas    University of Washington, Tacoma

Wilson, Glenn    Odessa College

Winegarden, Wayne H.    Arduin, Laffer & Moore Econometrics

Wolf, Charles    Hoover Institution

Wolfram, Gary    Hillsdale College

Wunder, Gene C.    Washburn University

Wykoff, Frank    Pomona College

Yoho, DeVon    Ball State University

Yonge, Nancy A.    Center for American Strength

Young, Eric    University of Virginia

Zdanowicz, John S.    Florida International University

Zellner, Arnold    University of Chicago

Zoric, Joseph    Franciscan University of Steubenville

Zycher, Benjamin    Manhattan Institute for Policy Research

< Anger & politics | Fanning the flames >

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How Many Nobel Prize Winning Economists Oppose Barack Obama's Economic Proposals? | 83 comments (83 topical, 0 hidden)
How many right wing websites (none / 0)
make up total bull shit that is then pasted on liberal blogs?

by Chinese Democracy on 10/10/2008 09:15:11 AM EST

NeoCON Economic Myths (none / 0)
Myth: Raising capital gains tax will kill jobs.

Fact: Truthful economists will tell you that the tax burden is not the tax collected, it is the money the government spends.

Reducing taxes without reducing spending a) defers taxes - they will have to be paid back later, with interest, and b) is mostly used as a tool to shift the tax burden from one class to another, lately reducing the tax burden from the wealthy and increasing the burden to middle and lower classes.

Reducing the tax burden on the middle and lower class stimulates the economy, because they SPEND THE MONEY, which increases jobs.  Reducing tax burden on the upper class does little or nothing to stimulate the economy or increase jobs.

Myth: Free Trade Agreements are Good for the Economy

Fact: Free Trade Agreements help US's wealthy and hurt the middle and lower class.  The main benefits of free trade is for companies to use cheaper foreign labor and to import cheap foreign-made products for US consumers.  This results in the loss of manufacturing jobs, and moves US workers from high paying manufacturing jobs to low paying service industry jobs.

Free Trade Agreements put our jobs at the mercy of Foreign Currency Exchange speculators and International politics.

Myth: Smaller government and less regulation helps the economy by allowing free market forces to work.

Fact: Look at Wall Street today.

by rbruck on 10/10/2008 12:56:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Here's a link to a feedburner (none / 0)
chock full of polls giving Obama 80%+ better than the McCainiac at the economy.  Go here for more.

by gatekeeper50 on 10/10/2008 01:33:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You forgot this maxim (none / 0)
People are stupid.  Not that many people understand economics.  They simply believe that because of the economic crisis to blame the current power in the White House.  The sad part is nothing could be further than the truth.

Lower paying service jobs????  Higher paying manufacturing jobs????   Blue collar is payed higher than White collar, that's news to me.

by Relvig on 10/11/2008 12:18:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Neomythology (none / 1)
You don't know what neoconservative means nor what economic policies neocons favor.

by Twba on 10/11/2008 02:30:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I couldn't have written this better (none / 0)
http://volokh.com/archives/ archive_2008_10_05-2008_10_ 11.shtml#1223680111

Sorry that it is a right wing site, but the postings that are being sited on the page are not.

by Relvig on 10/11/2008 02:27:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Where's the link? (none / 0)
Were you aftaid to mention this CRAP came directly from McCain's website?

And you forgot to add the paragraph which ANSWERS your question instead of trying to make it look like ALL of these REPUBLICAN ECONOMISTS - the ones who GOT us into this mess - are Nobel Prize winners (Just like Arafat and Kissinger...)

ARLINGTON, VA -- Today, McCain-Palin 2008 released the following statement signed by 100 distinguished and experienced economists at major American universities and research organizations, including five Nobel Prize winners

You would have to be a self-hating moron to vote for a Republican next month.

by MedfordTim on 10/10/2008 09:21:18 AM EST

In case of doubt (none / 0)
Geez, I forgot the link, too!

by MedfordTim on 10/10/2008 09:23:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Tim! Where the heck have you been, fella? (none / 0)

Twba has been all over the site practicing his skills in dishonesty, hatred, and down right stupidity.  We've been trying to keep up with him without you.  But we always need two shots to kill him where you only use one (except when you throw in a zinger just for the fun of it).

Thanks for covering this one.

But just for the heck of it, I'll throw these in:

Economists Support Obama Over McCain By More Than 2 to 1

and, even better,

The Economists' Poll of Economists Favors Obama by 80%

by EveningStarNM on 10/10/2008 09:58:44 AM EST

[ Parent ]
From your duplicate link, dumbass (none / 0)
Our survey is not, by any means, a scientific poll of all economists. We e-mailed a questionnaire to 683 research associates, all we could track down, of the National Bureau of Economic Research, America's premier association of applied academic economists, though the NBER itself played no role in the survey. A total of 142 responded, of whom 46% identified themselves as Democrats, 10% as Republicans and 44% as neither. This skewed party breakdown may reflect academia's Democratic tilt, or possibly Democrats' greater propensity to respond. Still, even if we exclude respondents with a party identification, Mr Obama retains a strong edge--though the McCain campaign should be buoyed by the fact that 530 economists have signed a statement endorsing his plans.

by Twba on 10/10/2008 10:14:18 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Wow! I thought I'd pasted both! (none / 0)

Well, "dumbass", here's the other one:

http://econ4obama.blogspot. com/2008/09/66-of-economist s-are-economists-for.html

by EveningStarNM on 10/10/2008 10:19:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
And your poll IS scientific? (none / 0)

I never said it was a scientific poll.  How is The Economist's article different from your original post?

You picked the rules of this game.  Now you have to live with them.


by EveningStarNM on 10/10/2008 10:22:16 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Different (none / 1)
How is The Economist's article different from your original post?

The original post is a letter signed by economists. The Economist's poll is anonymous. We don't know who responded.

by Twba on 10/10/2008 02:04:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
We win, twba loses in a landslide!! (none / 0)
Final score- Obama 530, McCain 100

by ProfRich on 10/10/2008 11:05:49 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Reading skills (none / 1)
Nice job, Rich. Those 530 are McCain's.

Those who can, do. Those who can't read, teach.

by Twba on 10/10/2008 01:38:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Whoops (none / 0)

Those are the ones I referred to earlier who said they had, in fact, not endorsed McCain's plan.

Cenk covered this on the show.  A lot.

by ProfRich on 10/10/2008 02:04:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Cenk's silly season (none / 1)
Cenk covered this on the show.  A lot.

If Cenk announced that the sky is blue, I would step outside to confirm it. Cenk's credibility is gone. Cenk's defense of the Obama-Ayers connection was as credible as Sean Hannity.

by Twba on 10/11/2008 02:26:58 AM EST

[ Parent ]
one less reason to hang around (none / 0)
actually, seems like a good reason to go somewhere where your views are respected.

by desertpear on 10/11/2008 04:14:04 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Hang on (none / 1)
Cenk is so deep in the tank, he's choking on Kool-Aid. Let's hope after the election he finds his head quickly.

by Twba on 10/11/2008 06:06:37 AM EST

[ Parent ]
It was a news story (none / 0)

McCain lied and said hundreds of economists endorsed his plan.  When they were asked, they said they hadn't.

I used Cenk as a reference because this is a board about his show.

It was in all the other media too (except the Kool-Aid you shlurp down over there ate Uncle Sean's Place).

What kills me about guys like you and this new Relvsig or whatever, is how completely unaware you are of news story that aren't approved in the conservative bubble.

by ProfRich on 10/12/2008 01:27:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Obama 530, McCain 100 (none / 0)
That does not justify placing all 530 in Obama's column.

by Twba on 10/13/2008 01:53:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Those who can't KenTX, Twba (none / 0)
We've been through this with Ken.  He and Twba both hate teachers because they have a problem with authority.  And also with knowledge.

by OneHitKill on 10/11/2008 11:04:42 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I'm a teacher with a Masters Degree (none / 1)
Most teachers unlike me have only theory they learned at college.  I was a salesman in the printing industry previous to this.  The sad part is that with only theory to back up their points and no actual apllicational experience, their reality is heavily skewed.  I have seen economics in the classroom and have seen it work in business.  I have witnessed classroom teachers teach students with what they believe to be true, but have no clue about the reality of what they teach.

My best example in terms of reporting would be John Stossel.  After years of investigative reporting believing his fellow journalists that government is the answer, he has realized through EXPERIENCE that government is very usually the problem.  But the moment he recognized this very real experience and spoke out about it, he was ostracized by the liberla media.  Don't you wake up either, the left wing loons will try to drag you back down too.  Better to believe what you are told, not what you find out for yourself.

by Relvig on 10/11/2008 12:28:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Right-wingers are allergic to school (none / 0)
You say liberal media, I say unicorns and forest sprites.

by OneHitKill on 10/11/2008 08:46:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
apllicational (none / 0)
Does a Master's Degree allow you to invent new words?

Palin in 2012? Bitch, please! No, really, please run in 2012, bitch. ;)

by richardshort2001 on 10/11/2008 08:56:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
OK so do the math (none / 0)

with the breakdown 46% Dem 10% GOP and 44% Independent

80% choose Obama

Assume all Dems support Obama and all GOP support McCain

That means Independents choose Obama more than 3 to 1.

Palin in 2012? Bitch, please! No, really, please run in 2012, bitch. ;)

by richardshort2001 on 10/10/2008 11:09:12 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Ah, but you forget sociology (none / 0)
You forgot abuot the basic premise that you don't want to be part of a minority.  The 40+ other economists would be influenced simply because the other group was voting toward the democrat.  Most people whether educated or not will still follow this basic socilogical tenant.  The large majority of proponents in the middle if given the choice of who to vote toward will invariably be influenced (granted not by deliberate coersion) to vote with the majority, or democratic point of view.

by Relvig on 10/11/2008 12:34:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
So you're saying (none / 0)

that the economists, who were contacted separately, somehow knew that more Democrats would respond and put their reputation on the line in order to conform with this psychically discovered outcome?

 Makes perfect sense.

Palin in 2012? Bitch, please! No, really, please run in 2012, bitch. ;)

by richardshort2001 on 10/11/2008 02:45:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Selection Bias (none / 0)
Out of 683, only 142 chose to respond. That appears to be a classic example of selection bias.

by Twba on 10/13/2008 01:52:17 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I'm weaning y'all (none / 0)

There have been many new voices popping up (usually happens before an election). Time for this oldster to stand aside and listen instead of talk for awhile. My Internet dies on Monday, so these youngsters are going to have to fly on thier own anyhow.

One thing I can count on is that whenever I can drop by, Twba will be posting the same stuff and it will feel like I've never been on vacation...

(It may not hit 48 after all, but it's going to be a lot more states than any Rightie thought possible a year ago...remind people I predicted a landslide right after the '06 elections plus solid control of BOTH houses. Filibuster THIS, Republicans!)

by MedfordTim on 10/10/2008 11:21:40 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Deja vu (none / 0)
One thing I can count on is that whenever I can drop by, Twba will be posting the same stuff and it will feel like I've never been on vacation...

And you'll never stop blaming everything on lower marginal tax rates.

by Twba on 10/10/2008 02:05:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Shows how much YOU know! (none / 0)

Ha!

I'll still be blaming Reagan!

by MedfordTim on 10/10/2008 05:45:29 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Reaganomics, Tim (none / 0)
I'll still be blaming Reagan!

You'll never stop blaming everything on lower marginal tax rates -- Reaganomics.

by Twba on 10/11/2008 02:28:42 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I will miss your posts MedfordTim (none / 0)
  We dont always agree..but bottom line we are on the same side of any particular subject 90 percent of the time.  Your angle on things is a nice addition to any blog.

I hope your internet "comes back to life"  soon

by Chinese Democracy on 10/10/2008 04:01:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Memo to Dave Koller (none / 0)
We need to start a link for a "Donate for Tim's Internet Service".

I'm down for the first $200. I'm not playin'.

by KenTX on 10/10/2008 04:16:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Done deal. (none / 0)
Don't do it Dave. Use it to buy a round in celebration Nov. 5th.

by MedfordTim on 10/10/2008 05:44:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Dies? (none / 0)

Like, dies forever or--?  You can't be serious. 

Go to the library and use their computers or something, because I've always loved the video and article links you've posted (the Guardian Films one was particularly great).

by Spencer on 10/10/2008 08:37:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Spencer saves the day. (none / 0)
That's a great idea! The library is like two blocks from his house, and look.

This is the kind of smart thinking I would expect from a guy who likes the music of JR Cash.

by KenTX on 10/11/2008 03:07:51 AM EST

[ Parent ]
One more JR classic. (none / 0)
Just because I like the sound.

by KenTX on 10/11/2008 03:29:19 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The end of the road (none / 1)

by Twba on 10/11/2008 04:06:33 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The last Cash single (to the best of my knowledge) (none / 0)

And a ton of cameos in the video too.

And another of my favorite later Cash songs (with Tom Petty backing him up).

And this one makes me tear up every time.

by Spencer on 10/11/2008 04:42:45 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Johnny Met June (none / 1)

by Twba on 10/11/2008 06:03:40 AM EST

[ Parent ]
That was a great performance. (none / 0)
I can't believe I'd never seen it before.  That song never sounded so good.

by Spencer on 10/11/2008 04:35:37 AM EST

[ Parent ]
say it ain't so Tim :( (none / 0)
My Internet dies on Monday, so these youngsters are going to have to fly on thier own anyhow.

by desertpear on 10/11/2008 04:15:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
And just like FDR (none / 0)
You will see, just like FDR’s policies, Obama’s plans will cause this crisis to extend years beyond when it would have normally ended.  Yes, it does look as if Obama may just be elected after all.  And it is possible to have a filibuster proof congress.  Heaven help you if you get what you want.  Store your money in your mattress. 

 


 


 

Interesting to see people actually voting for the demise of the free market system that has created the most successful and economically powerful country the world has yet to see.  Must simply be a fluke.  But, as they say, I will fight for your right to use your free will as you must, even if it is going to be self-destructive.

by Relvig on 10/11/2008 12:46:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Parting shots....what fun! (none / 0)

There is no such thing as a "Free Market" - somebody pays. Usually disproportionate to income level. That's why the longest-lasting, most stable economies are those which strike a balance between social needs, business demands. fiscal responsibility, and government intervention where needed.

America's economy is too tilted to business demands. Thus, we have the roller-coaster of inflation/deflation cycles instead of stability.

FDR did what was needed for the country, not just for the corporations - too bad his investment in America stopped. We can see the results of ignoring the basic infrastructure all around us in failing bridges and levees, potholes, and unmet energy needs.

Regulated Capitalism is good. Greed is bad. Using wealth as a determinate of human accomplishment is a good masturbatory fantasy, but real people suffer when it is practiced in public.

There was a damn good reason to include the words "promote the general welfare" in the Preamble to the Constitution. We are a nation, not 300 million individuals in it for themselves. At least, that's not what the founders envisioned us as. Call it Socialism if you want, but I BELIEVE in people working together at common goals, joining together to make ALL of society better, and lending a helping hand where necessary. Government isn't the enemy, because WE are NOT the enemy and the government is US.

"Yes, it does look as if Obama may just be elected after all."

No shit? I coulda told you that in February...

by MedfordTim on 10/11/2008 03:13:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Actually, you did tell us that in February (none / 0)

Come back soon, please, and often.  I will miss you.

by EveningStarNM on 10/12/2008 12:50:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ambling through (none / 0)
There was a damn good reason to include the words "promote the general welfare" in the Preamble to the Constitution.

What follows the preamble severely restricts what the government may do. The general welfare clause does not give our government carte blanche.

by Twba on 10/13/2008 04:01:14 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Wow, what is your masters in again? (none / 0)

So your theory is that Republican economic policies not only didn't cause the Great Depression but would have saved us from it if we would have just forged ahead with them?

GOod luck selling that shit.

by ProfRich on 10/12/2008 01:25:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Defend Obama (none / 0)
Why is Obama proposing to do what Hoover did that turned a recession into the Great Depression?

by Twba on 10/13/2008 01:55:30 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Linky link (none / 1)

Job Creators Prefer McCain 4-To-1 Over Obama

by Twba on 10/11/2008 02:31:49 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Tim (none / 1)
Morons blame the financial crisis on Reaganomics and/or deregulation.

by Twba on 10/10/2008 09:48:08 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Actually,... (none / 0)

...only morons think Reaganomics and deregulation have nothing to do with our current problems.

http://www.economist.com/sp ecialreports/displaystory.c fm?story_id=12373696

Look, if you're going to argue, at least try to be challenging, okay?  There are actual facts and well-understood principles involved here, and you have to have some grasp of them if you don't want to look as stupid as you do.

by EveningStarNM on 10/10/2008 10:14:49 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Rats. I forgot the quote (none / 0)


"The “shadow banking system”—the money-market funds, securities dealers, hedge funds and the other non-bank financial institutions that defined deregulated American finance—is metamorphosing at lightning speed. And in little more than three weeks America’s government, all told, expanded its gross liabilities by more than $1 trillion—almost twice as much as the cost so far of the Iraq war."

That's only the beginning.  See more at

http://www.economist.com/sp ecialreports/displaystory.c fm?story_id=12373696

by EveningStarNM on 10/10/2008 10:17:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Deregulator (none / 0)
Interstate trucking and long distance telephony have been deregulated. Mortgage underwriting has remained heavily regulated.

The housing bubble and the resultant financial crisis were not caused by deregulation.

There are actual facts and well-understood principles involved here, and you have to have some grasp of them if you don't want to look as stupid as you do.

Don't ignore your own advice.

by Twba on 10/10/2008 01:37:53 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Do you really think those are good examples? (none / 0)

You're nuttier than I thought.

1) Interstate trucking is a mess, and people have a hard time making a living at it, much less having happy lives.

2) Wow!  You found one case where some deregulation worked (although it was found necessary to re-impose some regulations when service providers thought they could get away with not providing services from or to some areas).

3) You appear to believe that our current crises were caused by mortgage underwriters -- or mortgages, period.  Apparently you haven't been paying attention.

It's the unregulated credit default swaps, stupid!

by EveningStarNM on 10/10/2008 01:50:46 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Interstate Trucking (none / 0)

Interstate Trucking is a terrible example.  It is massively subsidized by the Federal Government.  Cargo trucks do much more damage to the roads (and bridges) than they pay in taxes, and much more damage than cars.

If it weren't for massive subsidies, there would be very little Interstate trucking, and much greater use of trains.

Interstate Trucking is a perfect example of where government subsidies is a bad thing.  If we weren't subsidizing trucking, or if we would charge truckers for the damage they do to the roads, more products would ship by train - the total cost of transporting goods would be much less, our air would be cleaner, and there would be many fewer highway injuries and deaths.

by rbruck on 10/10/2008 02:42:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Nice Twba (none / 0)
The mortgage brokers were forced by government to go after sub-prime mortgages.  Government regulation forced this upon the market, and since you allowed the market to go after money in a way they never would have before, in fact encouraged, how can you blame the market economy.  Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were over-regulated.



by Relvig on 10/11/2008 01:12:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ohhhh,,,,,SNAP! (none / 0)
Oh. Ouch.

by MedfordTim on 10/10/2008 11:08:40 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Is that why McCain suddenly decided (none / 0)
we need more regulation?

Palin in 2012? Bitch, please! No, really, please run in 2012, bitch. ;)

by richardshort2001 on 10/10/2008 11:10:29 AM EST

[ Parent ]
No (none / 0)
True morons keep arguing for the same type of government, or lack of it, that is responsible for the catastrophe they are too dogmatic to acknowledge.

by bfaul on 10/10/2008 12:17:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
twba as self-hating moron (none / 0)
twba is not just self-hating; he is all-hating it seems, except for his secret masturbatory inspiration--Sarah Palin.

"I'm voting for Palin. I have said positive things about her. I especially like how she is hated by all the right people."


"What's funny is that you think Palin is the stupid one. But Palin never said, "I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal." I absolutely will not vote for the moron who said that."
 

Spare us hater--get a therapist.

by desertpear on 10/10/2008 02:00:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
D-Pear (none / 1)
You can't upset me. I am immune to your hate.

by Twba on 10/10/2008 02:10:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
twba (none / 0)
That's okay, I'll keep posting anyway.

by desertpear on 10/11/2008 04:12:28 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The lady doth protest too much, methinks (none / 0)
...secret masturbatory inspiration...

I said nice things about Gov. Palin. I posted a photograph that told an interesting story.

The masturbatory material has been posted by others Here is an example:

PILF Obama is HOT!

Who wrote that the Obamas are the only political couple she would like to see naked? Am I remembering that correctly?

by Twba on 10/13/2008 01:57:50 AM EST

[ Parent ]
No longer a secret (none / 0)
...this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.

Obama doesn't walk on water; he stomps it back down.

Desertpear, did you post this image?

Whose secret masturbatory inspiration is that?

by Twba on 10/15/2008 09:12:52 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Why should I believe this? (none / 0)

McCain already lied about economists supporting his plan, so why should I pay any attention to this.

Are we just going to have all the people on this list come out and say they never said this like last time.

See, this is why honesty is important.  You start running around like Grampa Death and the Frosty Floozy and pretty soon no one believes a word you say.

Get it?

Pus, I used to respect the Nobel prize in economics, then they gave one to that bullshit artist, hack Friedman so who really takes that thing seriously anymore?

by ProfRich on 10/10/2008 09:44:03 AM EST

Pop Quiz (none / 0)
Name the Nobel Prize winning economist who wrote this:

These results regarding the risk-based capital standard are striking: They suggest that on the basis of historical experience, the risk to the government from a potential default on GSE debt is effectively zero.

. . .

This analysis shows that, based on historical data, the probability of a shock as severe as embodied in the riskbased capital standard is substantially less than one in 500,000 -- and may be smaller than one in three million. Given the low probability of the stress test shock occurring, and assuming that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac hold sufficient capital to withstand that shock, the exposure of the government to the risk that the GSEs will become insolvent appears quite low.

Given the extremely small probability of default by the GSEs, the expected monetary costs of exposure to GSE insolvency are relatively small -- even given very large levels of outstanding GSE debt and assuming that the government would bear the costs of all GSE debt in the case of insolvency. For example, if the probability of the stress test conditions occurring is less than one in 500,000, and if the GSEs hold sufficient capital to withstand the stress test, the implication is that the expected cost to the government of providing an explicit government guarantee on $1 trillion in GSE debt is just $2 million.

For extra credit, which presidential candidate is he supporting?

by Twba on 10/13/2008 03:58:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Yeah whatever (none / 0)

If there's genuine concern Obama is likely to take it into careful consideration before proposing the legislation.  That's the basic difference between him and the assholes who have been running things for the last two terms.

As for this statement:

"They would reduce economic growth and decrease the number of jobs in America."

As opposed to what's happening now I guess, right?

They said this same horseshit when Clinton got into office, yet growth was unprecedented by the end of the 1990s and we were beginning to pay down the debt. Had we continued to do things that way we might be nearing zero debt, possibly even have had a small surplus by now.  Next imagine we had not spent $700 billion on that idiotic war in Iraq.  There's even some chance that a president Gore might have actually paid attention when reports of terrorist communications reached a crescendo in August of 2001 and actually alerted the airlines to tighten up security.  Think of the money we might have saved if the 9/11 plot had been foiled even partially.  Next imagine that Gore had actually put us on a path in 2001 to seriously reducing our waste of energy and maximizing the developement of alternatives.  Who cares if he would have done it to prevent CO2 buildup or simply to reduce our dependency on foreign oil?  It still would have been exactly the right move. 

Here is the worst part about it.  Had he managed to prevent some of the worst problems we have had in the last decade we would still be listening to whining from people like you dogging him the whole way and griping with a bellyful about how much MORE money they could be making if only this and only that.

Instead what we have gotten is proof in the most dramatic way that if you take the conservative philosphy and run with it to the exclusion of all other ideas what you get is unrelenting, unmitigated disaster.  Instead of surplus we've nearly doubled our debt.  We've thrown away a minimum of $1 trillion on making sure the Iraqis have the right to fight and argue with each other unfettered by Saddam for the next 50 years.  We're more dependent on foreigners for energy than at any time in our history and they hate us worse than at anytime anyone can remember.  The Russians are emerging again as a resurgent power threatening to restart the cold war in retaliation for a missile defense system that serves no valuable strategic purpose except to enrich a few defense contractors and almost certainly Bush and Cheney.  Oh, I almost forgot, the stock market is partying likes it's 1929.

This is the price we've payed for that miserable little 2 or 3 percent tax decrease.   Was it worth it to you?

In spite of all the proof of their incompetence you would throw the keys to the country back to the same bastards that have put us on the brink of complete disaster with their infinitely shortsighted stupidity.  Why are you wasting your time arguing for these people?  If they get the controls a third time they'll be reaming your ass just like everyone else's.  Or do you actually like it?

I'm going to stick with the philosophy that if the guy running things is fucking it all up you fire him (and prosecute him when he's been criminal) and find someone else.  If you like Bush and Cheney so much why don't you go to work for them after we pitch their asses out on the street?

by bfaul on 10/10/2008 12:13:05 PM EST

To whom it may concern (none / 1)
If there's genuine concern Obama is likely to take it into careful consideration before proposing the legislation.

So far he has proposed to do exactly what Herbert Hoover did -- raise taxes and increase protectionism. I see no sign of careful consideration.

by Twba on 10/10/2008 02:02:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
If McCain is such an expert on the subject (none / 0)
of the economy why doesn't he talk about it EVER?? You would think this might be a good time.

Is he keeping it a secret? Like his secret plan to capture BinLadin?

What does calling Obama a terrorist have to do with the economy?

by Chinese Democracy on 10/10/2008 04:04:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Memories (none / 1)
Chinese Democracy,

Do you recall how immediately after the 2006 election I predicted that American troops would still be in Iraq in large numbers at the end of Bush's second term? You called me all sorts of bad names and denigrated my intelligence and prognosticative skills. Wow, were you ever wrong.

by Twba on 10/11/2008 02:36:13 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The troops would all be home, (none / 1)
but Barack Obama insisted they stay in Iraq.

by KenTX on 10/11/2008 02:47:59 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Eerily prescient (none / 1)
I told you Obama is running for Bush's third term.

by Twba on 10/11/2008 02:56:43 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I take yoiur predictions with a grain of salt (none / 0)
As for bad names. You are conservative  thats a bad name in my book.

by Chinese Democracy on 10/13/2008 11:19:03 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Answer (none / 1)
McCain is not an economic expert nor is Obama. Obama's economic proposals are worse than McCain's.

McCain is a terrible campaigner. Recall that he torpedoed his 2000 campaign by insulting Christians -- not a good idea when a majority of Americans are Christian.

Obama's long friendship with a terrorist calls into question his judgment. With no record to run on, he claimed superior judgment was reason enough to elect him president, making his judgment a legitimate campaign issue.

by Twba on 10/11/2008 02:39:09 AM EST

[ Parent ]
McCain's OMG! very real terrorist ties (none / 0)

You really need someone to invent triangular toast.  So you can butter something on three sides.

McCain is also friends with terrorists.

Not a close enough relationship?  Psshaw.  Follow the money.  The strongest relationships of all are built on that exactly.

(OneHitKill is smart enough to know that terrorists have no tangible connection to this -- nor any other -- facet of American politics.  But some folks thrive on imagined crisis, and who would OneHitKill be to take away someones.....what shall I say....."bread and butter?")

by OneHitKill on 10/11/2008 11:12:44 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Raise taxes on (none / 1)
whom?

by Chinese Democracy on 10/10/2008 05:09:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Twba's timing really sucks, huh? (none / 0)
'Economists For McCain' Trash McCain's New Mortgage Plan


Many of the professional economists who formally endorsed John McCain's economic plan are expressing bewilderment with his most recent proposal to rectify the home mortgage crisis.

In interviews with the Huffington Post, roughly a dozen of McCain's economist supporters said they disagreed with the Senator's recent proposal -- for the government to buy distressed mortgages at face value from banks and renegotiate them with homeowners. Several viewed it as a gimmick, driven mostly by political circumstance. Only one pro-McCain economist spoke up in favor of the plan.

"This is just political gamesmanship," said Robert H. Heidt, a professor at the Indiana University School of Law. "The bill is wildly over-ambitious in trying to rescue home buyers from the downturn in real estate appreciation. It's costs would never end. I will end up voting for McCain but this is ridiculous."

Added George Viksnins, a retired professor of economics at Georgetown University: "Even though I support McCain I think this is an ill-considered program. This was something to get press time and face time, and that is the problem with our political system. This was done as a sound bite and without analysis."

"This is part of the larger plan to reward people who made mistakes. There is nothing in the plan to prevent people from continuing to do dumb things," remarked Don Booth, a professor of economics at Chapman University, who previously signed onto McCain's economic plan. "If we reward bad behavior, we will get more bad behavior."

One economist who backed McCain was more sympathetic to what the Arizona Republican was trying to do -- the argument being that the government, which contributed to the crisis by encouraging home loans to those in no position to afford them, now held responsibility in helping the nation out of the mess.

"I think his idea is a good one to the extent that you have to stabilize the housing market.
I think the intention is the right intention. I think the direction is the right direction," said
Professor C. Thomas Howard of the Reiman School of Finance at the University of Denver. But even Howard was left concerned with the lack of details or underlying principle in McCain's approach. "Are they going too far in trying to save everything?"

Others were simply confused and critical with McCain's proposal to pay full price on these mortgages, arguing it amounted to a taxpayer bailout for those home owners who went beyond their financial means and financial institutions that jumped in on the business of shaky loans.

Michael Connolly, an economics professor at the University of Miami, called the idea "Robin Hood economics."

"It will provide an incentive for people to default [on their loans]," he warned. "And they might get rid of their negative equity and take the subsidy and default on their next loan too."

Houston Stokes, a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, said he didn't agree that the government should "pay a face value" due to the moral hazard it created.

"These guys got themselves into a jam and it is now their problem," he said. "We should not overpay. We should buy these mortgages at the lowest price... I don't want to be accused of helping out the Wall Street types."

Stokes was echoed by Delaware University economics professor Burton Abrams, who said that McCain was encouraging "future bad decisions," before noting that "there are no easy solutions here and all have their costs."

The American Enterprise Institute's Glenn Biggs (another McCain economics backer) may have summarized it best: "The issue could be not just moral hazard and unfairness, in the sense that [people think]: how do I get my share of this? And maybe they stop paying on their mortgage. I don't know the plan well enough to know what design features it has. But generally, people want to qualify for a benefit when it exists."

McCain's plan, which has quietly undergone revision in recent days, was first announced during Tuesday night's presidential debate with Barack Obama.

"I would order the secretary of the Treasury to immediately buy up the bad home-loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes, at the diminished value of those homes, and let people make those -- be able to make those payments and stay in their homes," McCain said, adding: "Is it expensive? Yes."

In the immediate aftermath, as pundits scratched their heads, it was unclear how much the plan would cost, whether the government would pay face value for the devalued mortgages, or even if it was legal. Eventually, the Senator ceded that it would require "new money" beyond the funds included in the recent $700 billion economic rescue package.

In the meantime, the McCain campaign has tried to present the idea as a prudent and fair measure of stabilizing the housing market and ensuring that average Americans don't lose their homes. But even for some of McCain's own endorsers, the political implications behind his most recent proposal seemed all too regrettable and clear.

"I have favored McCain's approach to the economy, since Obama's plans will, of necessity, lead to tax increases and huge spending increases," said Phil Bryson, a professor of economics at Brigham Young University. "I would have expected this kind of mortgage plan to have been proposed by Obama, since it fits well with his general approach to government action. It comes from McCain only because the declining economy has given Obama a surge in the polls and people are willing to accept anything Obama says without question."



by MedfordTim on 10/10/2008 08:28:59 PM EST

Chickens coming home to roost (none / 1)
Many of the professional economists who formally endorsed John McCain's economic plan are expressing bewilderment with his most recent proposal to rectify the home mortgage crisis.

That's what McCain gets for adopting EveningStar's economic proposal.

by Twba on 10/11/2008 02:32:47 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Nobel Prize Winning Economists ? (none / 0)

Are there really that many Nobel Prize Winning Economists in USA ? Is this quoted list of "experts" real ? Has anyone checked the validity of TeeDoubleya's sources ? And what does the "ba" part of twba's name refer too anyway ?.. his college achievements ...i.e. "Bugger All" ?

Okay.. last question from the Canadian who has not researched to find answers to any of the above "either", is in response to twba's quote;

"his proposals run a high risk of throwing the economy into a deep recession"

Are you (USA) not already in a recession ? Because you are surely not prospering as a nation.

by SnowTiger on 10/15/2008 11:23:06 AM EST

Answers for Canuckistan (none / 0)
Is this quoted list of "experts" real?

The list is here.

Are there really that many Nobel Prize Winning Economists in USA?

When MedfordTim suggested I tried to make readers think all the economists were Nobel winners, I thought he was joking. After all, who would think that all those people are Nobelists? Tim knows this audience better than I.

Are you (USA) not already in a recession?

Obama's economic proposals would deepen the recession.

by Twba on 10/15/2008 02:09:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Well Then, If the Listed "Experts" (none / 0)

> Really are Experts and really do believe in McCain's policies being the best for the country, one might have to then consider where those opinions have come from considering >

"There are those that Teach, and then there are those that DO."

Maybe those so-called Experts, need a little "upgrading" themselves, whether or not they actually do subscribe to McCain's unlikely ideas.

by SnowTiger on 10/18/2008 11:38:15 AM EST

How Many Nobel Prize Winning Economists Oppose Barack Obama's Economic Proposals? | 83 comments (83 topical, 0 hidden)
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