My growing fears for the "United" States of America - PART 2

I have received several responses to my previous post about the growing unrest about difference in America. I wanted to thank everybody who has taken the time to respond to me personally.

But I just received a note from someone and thought I might share it with you all, and comment....

 

To preface, the author, a self-proclaimed "redneck", claims to have defended the Obama candidacy on several occasions, but at the same time, may write in the name of an imaginary cartoon character on election day. He followed that up with this short note:

"Win or lose, the candidacy of Barack Obama is God's way of telling white folks that they royally screwed-up!

At the same time, I have told black students that if they want to get some where in life, they need to pay close attention to Obama's ability to articulate and communicate.

Moreover, having taught a few courses on modern presidents, it is quite possible that Obama is the most forward thinking presidential candidate since John Kennedy."

*sigh... where to begin:

Point #1: A person's "candidacy" should not be associated with a divine mission or intention.

It can not be predetermined, or else we abolish all notion that the Lord gives us free will. Also, using the Lord's will as a justification for moral judgement is as sinful and contradictory to my personal Christian beliefs as I could possibly even begin to express.

In this country we need to start believing again in the value of work for work's sake; that service and work bring dignity. And that we should weigh a person's value on their willingness to contribute to society, and foster unity, understanding, and consensus among our citizens, despite their disagreements on even fundamental issues. Because we should be a UNITED nation, and stop being a really really big group of individual demographics fumbling over ourselves.

Point #2: The inherent racism of your statement to black students to pay attention to Mr. Obama's articulation is at the core of the hatred in this country.

I agree that his talent for speaking is extremely admirable. But why should it not be something that ALL children - black, white, asian, hispanic, etc. - aspire to? Why shouldn't every single adult even be telling themselves that they might be able to approach public-speaking more effectively?

Why must we continue to accentuate and highlight the differences among ourselves? Again, this does not breed unity, except among the most clique-ish of groups. This instead breeds hypersensitivity, extaneous political correctness, and mundane frivolity that often gets in the way of actually making a difference in the lives of the citizens of this nation.

 I would also add that rather than his communication skills, I find it strange that you do not reinforce such important aspirations as higher education, ambition, professionalism, and of course, civil service. I definitely agree that commnicating well opens up avenues otherwise shut in life, but even lowsy communicators can achieve success through education if their talents lie elsewhere, or if their dedication and hard work allow them to contribute positively to our society in other ways.

 
Point #3: As to Mr. Obama being "forward thinking", there is nothing "forward thinking" about your statements.

I think you cannot deny the fact that he has managed to achieve an enormous amount of success in a relatively short amount of time. 

And again, either he has been fortunate enough to surround himself with very talented and driven people that are extremely beneficial and contributory to that success.

Lastly, his talent does reflect in his ability to maintain an enormous amount of control and composure of his campaign. This is especially impressive in the context of  his relative inexperience, and the total lack of coherence of the opposing campaign.

However, I again think that what you may consider "forward thinking" is not necessarily "forward" but rather correct in most cases. And by correct, I do not mean based upon my personal beliefs, but what is feasible and possible for the country.

And often times, by threading the needle regarding very particular (social) issues, the supposed leftist and extremist manages to convince some more conservative folks that he's the way to go. Is that because he's 'palling around with right-wing extremists, flip-flopping, a sleeper-cell republican, or anything like that? No. It's because his position in that case is probably the correct one by the common-sense, ethical, and/or constitutional standards, while at the same time not being clouded by fundamentalist point-of-views. 

This country does not think. This country does not want to be together, united, for its own common good anymore. We've lost our way, and would rather get to know a sitcom character than our own neighbor. So now, an educated man, with common-sense ideas, and a stright-forward approach steps up, in a calm, cool, and collected way to state those ideas to the citizenry, and you call him "forward thinking." If that's your idea of "forward thinking", well then I guess this country is looking backwards.

So I guess I was right to be scared sh!tless.

< Jayar Jackson cute animal challenge. | Why isn't anyone talking about a hybrid solution?? >
 Display:
I wonder whooooo it could be?? What a MYSTERY. *cough* bobo *cough*

by hazmat on 10/13/2008 09:58:48 PM EST

But since you brought me up, Hazzie, I'll throw my 2 cents in on this important matter...

Ed, I appreciate your recent blog postings on this subject. I am one of those "redneck" types you describe in your writings, but with a slightly different opinion on the whole Obama phenomenon. I am going to try to explain it the best I can...

First of all, let me say that I do not hold any 'politician" in high regard. They are, by definition, liars and frauds for the most part. Living in Arizona, I know John McCain is a creep and a fraud when it comes to this whole "Maverick" patriot BS image. The man reminds me of a child molesting Igor type from a bad B movie. I will never endorse nor support him for any office, especially the presidency.

Obama, on the other hand, is no different to me than any other Chicago Democrat sheister (sp) lawyer type to me. I do not believe for one second that he can deliver on most anything that he promises to the people who trust him. His associations, as with all politicians (especially from Chicago) are questionable at best, and downright despicable at worst. In normal circumstances, I wouldnt have even given an Obama candidacy the time of day, let alone my vote.

But these are not normal circumstances...

I am going to vote for Obama as a "lesser of Two Evils" decision. I know John McCain will continue the Bush type policies that have brought both our spirit, our economy and our overall demeanor down to the shithole levels. Electing John McCain is unacceptable to me in any regard.

Please, though, do not mistake my decision to vote for Obama as an endorsement or support for his candidacy or stance. I could choose simply not to vote,  but then I would not be in a position to declare my stand and to have my say in that event.

An Obama presidency scares me. There, I said it. Now, Ed, you will hear a chorus of cheers from my Liberal friends here at TYT deriding me as a racist and bigot and whiteboy chicken shit for being afraid of the big scary black man. You can take that derision as it is, but please let me tell you why it really frightens me in the context of the future of our country both immediately and long term. I can assure you it will be worth your time to continue reading...

Now, first things first - Do I like the idea of a Black man as leader of our country - no, not especially. Is it something I go to bed tremblin g in fear about every night? No, much to the chagrin of my fellow TYT bloggers.
 
Obama has been very careful not to portray himself, seclude himself or in any way indicate to others that he in fact is Black. He and his followers have made a false impression that we can all live together in some melting pot Kumbaya type soceity where the color of our skin does not preclude us from any of the freedoms or benefits of living in a free soceity. I think that is a great ideal. I think it is a totally unrealistic ideal that no one can reasonably expect to happen... I think by reading your posts Ed that you and I both live in the real world. I think we are both scared to think of what possibly could happen if the scales of power even appeared to shift against the "redneck" type whites that you refer to...

I feel there is a growing resentment in places like Ohio and Pennsylvania, where "Civil Rights" have been crammed down the throats of Joe Sixpack and Ma and Pop store owner only to see the minority population swell on the welfare and unemployment rolls, and the crime rates quadruple in the urban areas. I see people being angry and aiming that anger at what they see as the cause of their suffering - basically minority population sprawl and competition for jobs.

I think people in general are very angry overall - angry at Bush, angry at our bad economy, angry at foreign domination of our industries and productivity, and angry at the fact that no one seems to be able to come up with any ideas how to turn things around. With this much anger pent up in our soceity, what Obama provides at least a good 40% of the population is a focal target point in to which they can take their frustrations out on - here is a man and his followers who have promised us salvation and peace, and when he is unable to provide that, there is a big shitload of mess to come following.

Obama knows this. Obama is not stupid. But I dont think even Obama and his handlers truly grasp the amount of anger that the last 50 years of the way things have gone has produced. I think that as Liberals, the Obama camp thinks they have 2 options in dealing with the racial tension in this country - they can ignore it as others have done, or they can try to appease it by offering what they think are generous tax cuts to the middle class and goodies from the newly socialized economy.

But the underlying problem is that racism and hate are a part of ones soul. It cannot be changed through gifts or even education - The more both sides suffer, the more anger there is, the longer this problem perpetuates and eventually tears us apart... This simply cannot go away. This has been brewing ever since the first slaves landed here in the 1600s...

I genuinely am concerned for Obama's safety if he becomes president. I can address my issues and feelings about him and Blacks and Liberals openly, but a lot of people cannot. If he becomes a "hidden President" in fear for his or his familys safety, he runs the risk of becoming what we fear - an invisible entity who pulls the strings but will be detached from the country, much like GW Bush has become - is that what our country needs?

Im sorry I have rambled so long here. Please PM me if you would like to continue the discussion. Think of me what you will, but let me say that many of our friends here at TYT seriously underestimate the "redneck" white mentality of this country, and they would be shocked at what this population, my population, is capable of when we feel we have been put into a proverbial corner... Its not pretty, and theres no getting around it, unfortunately... As I continually state - there are more people like me in this country than there are of Obama...He might win the election, and thats great, but dont ever think that this means that the minorities are the majority in this country - they are not.

Thanks again for your considerable time...

:)

by bobo1 on 10/13/2008 11:26:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I think that is the most direct and honest and thoroughly descriptive that you have ever been about your feelings and opinions.  Your extreme cynicism aside -- and please believe me when I say that I don't blame anyone for being a cynic nowadays -- I am personally very grateful to you for having written this.

You talked about your fear, and you have allowed us to see what must be a very private part of who you are.  I would like to explain that your fears are unnecessary, but obviously you find them necessary, and I'm not going to deny that there isn't much about which we can be afraid.

I will simply say that there are times when I simply must believe someone, knowing that they are imperfect and can never be perfect, and that in every way that really matters, I am just like everyone else, and we are not different.  That is the reason that I am not afraid.

You can keep your fear, bobo1.  That's okay, although I hope that one day you will find it unnecessary.  But please don't ever give up this honesty.  I respect honesty, and I respect what you have written here.

Thank you.

by EveningStarNM on 10/13/2008 11:59:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I appreciate your candor and honesty.

:)

by bobo1 on 10/14/2008 01:08:37 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Just for clarity's sake, the comments that began this post were not from bobo. But I must take issue with some key points in his response.

Firstly, I do not in anyway believe John McCain. Also, I agree that in our current system, there is a general trend for politicians to be less than trustworthy.

However, there is one crucial difference between yourself and I, a difference that was at the very heart of both of my posts, that you seemed to have missed both times. 

The UNITED States of America is a proposition based fundamentally on the condition of unity. Without it, we do not succeed. In its absence, we achieve the current state of economic and social instability. 

As such, I can not in any right mind accept your notion that we are a nation with an inherent hateful nature. And that that nature is so intertwined into our history that it cannot be overcome.

It may not be an easy road, or a short road. But what should be inherent in our nature as citizens of one of the most diverse and blessed nations in the world is to strive to improve our situation, and that of every one of our fellow citizens. 

The first step on this road involves acceptance. Acceptance of the past and acceptance of the present. It involves accepting both the triumphs celebrated and disasters perpetrated by this country. It means working to understand how and why our nation arrived at this juncture, what it means for its citizens, and how to best improve the chances for the success of the country as we move forward.

If today, a person anywhere in this country stands up and says "nigger" to a black person, we digress to a time in our history when a large proportion of our population was considered as property, less than human, and openly disregarded in anyway as pertinent, productive members of society. And exactly the same thing occurs when you or anyone else claims to be "afraid" of a black man as president. Especially when that man, regardless of his color, is better-educated, a better speaker, has a much more American story, and overall, is much more presidential than his running mate.

And when the general population seathes with hatred for muslims based upon a sad and un-supported mass radicalization of a religion with over 1 billion followers, the vast majority of which are peaceful people, well then, we are a stagnant people. We have not accepted the past, we have not accepted our own weaknesses, or our infalalbility as a nation. And because of that hatred festers.

Lastly, when you isolate yourself from society, purposefully, and declare your hatred, in the process threatening retaliation against those who threaten your perspectives (as is what I read in your last paragraph), you continue to do an injustice to this nation, and any hope that it can ever truly united under one flag. You fan the flames of hatred and division, and threaten the lives of our soldiers overseas. And worst of all, to me, you sound UN-American.

I respect the fact that you speak up bobo. I think it takes guts. And I'm glad that you are comforted by your numbers. But I think you are wrong about your perspectives and opinions about this nation and it's potential. By short-changing how far we can move forward, you just hold us back. 

In spanish, bobo means stupid. But you aren't stupid bobo. You just perpetrate a sad vision for America.

"Objectivity lies not in balance, but in truth. And truth is more often than not unbalanced - slanted in favor of right, and against wrong." -Ed

by Ed on 10/14/2008 12:08:19 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I appreciate your comments and your postings. I would like to discuss one factor that perhaps goes to the core of our issues today...

You state that UNITY is at the core of our country and our being. Hence the name the UNITED States of America. As i too would like to believe this concept is achievable and true, i must honestly ask you -

When has this country EVER been unified? When have people reached unity, therefore EQUALITY in this scheme we call the USA?

I propose that this has never and will never happen, simply put because human nature cannot allow it. Whwn you get down to it, every soceity in any time frame has been a dichotomy of have and Have Not, and this principle alone precludes us from ever being truly UNIFIED...

Now I imagine you could go into how the country comes together during times of tragedy and crisis, War and Disease etc... But really, have we as a nation of independent states and thinkers ever been unified in both purpose and goal? I think not, and to believe such unity can exist among 300 million different souls is naive and silly, to be quite frank...

Now, I am not suggesting that we all become Stepford Wives and robots, programmed to perform and be the same, but really, where do you ever get this idea that we have or ever could be UNIFIED is these UNITED states? The mere fact we have different states with different laws and morals makes your point irrelevant to our current situation...

Perhaps it is my own cynicism, but I dod not see someone like Senator or President Obama as a UNIFIER - if anything, he will unwillingly bring out the Disunity and Unharmonius in many of my fellow "Redneck" types. God forbid now we have to listen and pledge allegiance to someone of color... The Psychologists and historians will speculate about this course in our timeline FOREVER...

I see this election of Obama as really the beginning of the end of what America has been. Now, I am not suggesting that Obama or his cohorts have malice aforethought to this - i would be willing to say that their intentions for the most part are probably admirable and good - what I am saying is that cultures and soceities very rarely take these sorts of jolts to their systems lightly. What we know as America, good or bad, will soon be over within the next 50 or so years. I wont be around, neither will you, but our children will... And thats what scares me...

But inevitability is something I suppose we all have to deal with. I hope Obama himself does right by us, but as i have indicated before, I see little hope in that happening.

Thanks again for your time...

:)

by bobo1 on 10/14/2008 01:05:10 AM EST

[ Parent ]

when people of color have achieved greatness in our country, then they become more accepted in society, by everyone.

 

if obama is elected, racist assholes will realize that maybe someone's skin color doesn't mean that much.  obama is as much white as he is black, anyway, and he acts whiter than i do.

by screenshotted on 10/14/2008 01:14:45 AM EST

[ Parent ]

bobo, I think it's beyond ignorant that you would suggest that this country has never been unified under a common cause, or that you would go as far as to objectify "war... crisis...[or] disease".

What do these exact situations threaten if not our UNION? They strike at the hopes of the protections offered by the strength of our interdependence. And so we come together, just as was done at the inception of our nation.

But if reality is as you see it, and unity is an impossible goal, then this U.S. of A. is no country worth living for, and therefore no country worth dying for. And as such you disrespect and desecrate every person who wears or has ever worn the uniform of the United States, or in any way serves its citizens. 

If our forefathers had not believed in the ability of men and women to come together and work to improve this nation through ourselves, then why construct such a marvelous Constitution on which to found that UNION? And why then, work so hard to bring unity through the Bill of Rights? I think that you should sit down with those documents bobo, and read them carefully.

You know what, maybe you're right. Maybe we can never get along with each other. Maybe it's our destiny to live captive to our ignorance and fear, and the belief that we are powerless to the struggles and challenges faced by our nation today? What should we do, throw in the towel and put fences up around each state?

Is that how afraid and prejudiced you are? That you would be willing to sacrifice the founding principles and ideals of this nation because of your own deep-seated bias or hatred?

Unity through a balance of freedom and mutual responsibility are goals and beliefs that every citizen in this nation should not only believe in, but strive to defend and further through active participation and contribution to society.

You claim that your "redneck" posse can act to change things in such a way as to support your stated beliefs. Well I reiterate that those beliefs are wrong because they are Anti-America, and filled with hate.

If you are so disturbed with the past and current progress of this nation, and have such an equal-minded group of supporters, I would hope that you would follow that same great spirit of every great American man and woman that has served their country faithfully, and do something about it by serving your country through an elected office or perhaps through the military.

I, however, cannot accept or respect that you instead insist on spreading desperation, fear, and an utter lack of hope for the future this great country of ours. You might as well burn the American flag.

"Objectivity lies not in balance, but in truth. And truth is more often than not unbalanced - slanted in favor of right, and against wrong." -Ed

by Ed on 10/14/2008 01:59:08 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Have a very different idea of unity... Please allow me to clarify my vision of Unity...

Just because we live under the same set of laws does not mean we are unified. Just because we speak the same language does not make us unified. Just because we fight and pledge under the same banner does not make us unified...

The unity I believe you speak of is what I call the Kumbaya hand in hand "Coca Cola Commercial Circa 1971 Untiy. Liberals and Progressives have this idea that enough people are educated and accepting of their virtues, that we can teach the world to sing in perfect harmony...

Thats the vision of unity you seem to be holding to in my opinion. That form of unity will not happen. period.

Our forefathers really couldnt have given a shit about their future generations and the likes - evidenced by the fact that if they had really cared, they would have repaired the already broken systems (trade, slavery, property) they had created. Their interests in those documents you so treasure was self preservation and economic prosperity - they were in it for the money. they were tired of England taking their money, they wanted more for themselves - the ultimate American Tradition...

And dont you dare hold our soldiers over my head with some supposed guilt trip - you and i both know that those boys (and girls now) are putting their ass on the line so some oil company can continue profitting from our entanglements. This whole "For God and Country" Horseshit should be getting really old to the Liberals by now, but maybe not since they along with the Conservatives are so entrenched into the financial gain that war and profiteering begets that they have forgotten what a real value fight is. I cant remember the last time a war was for an honest good, since none have happened in my lifetime. I support and pray everyday for our soldiers well being and safe return, but god dammit dont ever forget what they are really doing over there - protecting our corporate interests and raising profit expectations in the defense industry at the cost of Americans lives!!!

Perhaps you are right, we are more unified as a nation than many would concede, but you should also concede the fact that your Kumbaya vision of ONE UNIFIED NATION under WHATEVER is not going to happen among such a divise people as us. Working toward tolerance and balance is one thing, but expecting LOVE and Happiness in the hillsides and villages is an entirely different matter...

You explain to the out of work Ohio redneck why its OK that illegals in Arizona have jobs but not him. You explain why in our uinified nation its OK that a black man in Cleveland can register to Vote with ACORN 72 times, but my vote in AZ wont be counted because Im on some purged voter forclosure list. You explain why any sense of pride and culture that white people have in this country is derided as being racist or bigotted, but oure children are constantly exposed to Gangsta Rap that promotes violence against Women and children...

Unified? hardly - liveable - sometimes...

Nobody can fix this - this has to fix itself, and its not going to be pretty when it comes to a head...

Thanks again for your comments

:)

by bobo1 on 10/14/2008 02:21:58 AM EST

[ Parent ]


"But the underlying problem is that racism and hate are a part of ones soul."

 

Those are behaviors taught to people, no one is born with that.  Our society promotes competition, which breeds hate into people, but no one is born a racist, and no one is born hating anything.

by screenshotted on 10/14/2008 01:03:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]
doing that? has any soceity throughout recorded history ever stopped promoting Hate?

I didnt think so...

:)

by bobo1 on 10/14/2008 01:06:32 AM EST

[ Parent ]

negative.  this country loves to make the people fight amongst themselves instead of look at the underlying issues of how rich people are controlling the country.  until people understand what is really going on, we can't work towards a hate-free society.

 

even you have to agree, bobo, it may not be possible, but it is worth trying.

by screenshotted on 10/14/2008 01:10:05 AM EST

[ Parent ]

He asked, "Has any soceity throughout recorded history ever stopped promoting Hate?"

I've spent most of my life being a cynic.  I despise Repugnantcans and everything that they stand for because I know what one of the fundamental conceptions is that is held by the filthy rich (as opposed to good people who have gotten rich but stayed good).  Ask them.  They'll tell you: the poor deserve their fate because they don't work hard enough.

Their thinking stops right there and goes nowhere near reality or honesty or truth.  Not only do I despise those people, I have no respect for them whatsoever.

bobo1 also has demonstrated his cynicism, too.  Just look at his question.  But you, screenshotted, also show your cynicism when you say "this country loves to make the people fight amongst themselves..."

I think you went 'way too big.  I wish that you had kept it narrow and said something like this:

"The people who control the Repugnantcan Party and who want to control everyone want to keep our country divided so that we won't be strong enough to stand up against them."

I'll swallow that hook, line, and sinker.  But there are a lot of people who are not at all like that.  We're seeing right now -- and the proof is right in front of us -- that there are huge numbers of people who are not anything like The Controllers or their mouthpieces, who are not racist at all, who want for their neighbor's comfort and well-being as much as they want their own, and who view our country as a community, which is part of the larger world community.  They feel their responsibility to their community.

It's right there, plain as day.  It's happening right now.  In part it's a lot -- and I mean a lot! -- of young people saying, "okay, you oldsters.  You've really fucked things up, so now we're taking over."  My generation tried that, but we gave up in late 1968 when we didn't get everything we wanted.  We were spoiled rotten, and we took the easy way out.  We've inflicted some damage upon these kids, too, notably (but not only) an addiction to praise without useful criticism.  (Maybe that's an exaggeration, but not by much.)  They're finding that the world is biting them in the ass, and we didn't prepare them for it.

I really hope this younger generation actually shows up at the polls.  If they do then you, bobo1, and I are going to have to give up our cynicism, because if we're honest then we'll admit that we have no idea at all what's going to happen next.

I'll help where I can, but I think that these twenty- and thirtysomethings are going to take us for one helluva ride.  Let's hope so, anyway.  Besides, I don't think we can't stop them and, even if we could, we shouldn't.

Of course, if they don't show up at the polls, then we'll just have to do it ourselves -- after we give them a good spanking.

See?  The world is already getting better.

For me, that's the answer to bobo1's question.  Well, actually I didn't answer his question because I don't think it's the correct question.  I think its basic assumption -- that all societies promote hate -- is false.  Instead, I think the question should be:

"Can a society stop the promotion of hate?"

The answer to that is clearly "yes".  It's being done all over the world.  We just haven't finished the job yet.  But this country is about to take its biggest step ever toward that goal.

I am so in love with my country right now that I don't even know how to say it.

by EveningStarNM on 10/14/2008 02:29:45 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Is it just me, or do other people agree that some of the comments in this thread are way over stated or exaggerated?  Things generally don't have as much deep meaning as these elaborate, carefully-crafted post seem to suggest.  

Moving on to something more specific, it seems that a decent number of bubbas or rednecks or whatever you call them might actually vote for Obama.  You are crazy if you think with such certainty that Obama's election will tear the country apart.

Finally, can anybody recommend where I could read an in-depth analysis of the German political parties, particularly from the point of view of a comparison with the United States?

David

by yturks on 10/14/2008 02:18:43 AM EST


"Is it just me, or do other people agree that some of the comments in this thread are way over stated or exaggerated?"

You took the applied quantitative mathemati cs course, didn't you?  I can spot you guys a mile away.  My major required the theoretical courses where we had to learn proofs.  For some of us it was a lot of fun.

Moving on, it seems that a lot of bubbas or rednecks or whatever you call them aren't really racists at all.  I think they're voting their wallets.

Finally, I'm sorry that don't know a damned thing about German political parties or comparative politics.  Maybe you need to call Ana?  That's her bailiwick.

by EveningStarNM on 10/14/2008 02:45:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The German politics question was a joke, referring to another, amusing thread up now in which the subject is dissected quite thoroughly.

David

by yturks on 10/14/2008 09:27:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]
because I was thinking "mmm, that's creepy, we were just talking about that" :)

by callisto on 10/14/2008 10:07:22 AM EST

[ Parent ]

But man I am fed-up with all of this un-American, divisive bullsh!t.

How long have we all been threatened with being branded un-American? When in reality, it's exactly hatred, division and fear that have gotten us into the total and utter mess we are in now. 

We are fighting two wars against a shadow enemy, blowing our soldier's heads off in the process (for NO good reason). We've bankrupted our country financially. We've sold any positive standing we once had internationally. And for what? Give me a good reason why? What do we have to show for it?

And as bankruptcy spreads to our moral fabric, leading to a decay of the fundamental principles that hold together the UNITED States and are at the core of common decency, no one says a thing. The media bundles it up nice and neat as campaign rhetoric, and then we watch it in sound bites, and critique it.

I thought some open discussion of those principles and their meaning might be of benefit. I believe in them, and their importance. I believe in their value as a goal for this nation to strive to, in good times and in bad.

But apparently, where it matters most, this nation is at a 2, when it needs to be at a 10.

I'll leave it at that and again thank everyone again for their opinions and comments.

Good luck to everyone in these tough times, and may God bless America.

 

 

 

"Objectivity lies not in balance, but in truth. And truth is more often than not unbalanced - slanted in favor of right, and against wrong." -Ed

by Ed on 10/14/2008 02:16:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I apologize if we are getting at all verbose. But I am trying to have a logical and expressive discussion about what is most certainly, in my opinion, a rather important issue - the hatred and division that are at the center of the response to the current political debate.

I do agree with you, however, that political debate today generally does NOT have this level of meaning. And that is exactly why we now call it "political theater", compare it to 30-year-old television comedies, and do play-by-play instead of listening. Sorry.

Unfortunately, I can't offer anything up as far as reading suggestions go.

Keep up the great work you all do at TYT!

"Objectivity lies not in balance, but in truth. And truth is more often than not unbalanced - slanted in favor of right, and against wrong." -Ed

by Ed on 10/14/2008 02:47:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]

...would speak for hours on end.  They would have been outraged if told they would have to limit their debates to one hour.

by EveningStarNM on 10/14/2008 03:06:17 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Is it just me, or do other people agree that some of the comments in this thread are way over stated or exaggerated?

Ummmm, we are on the Internet here, right?

by OneHitKill on 10/14/2008 01:13:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
"Is it just me, or do other people agree that some of the comments in this thread are way over stated or exaggerated?  Things generally don't have as much deep meaning as these elaborate, carefully-crafted post seem to suggest."

I think David must like it better when we are all hating on each other ;)

I thought this thread was pretty good.  I think we are sort of lucky to have bobo here, because every once in a while he lets us inside his head.

Question:  Will we be able to reduce or eliminate divisiveness in this country before becoming extinct?  Or will liberals just move to Mars as soon as the colony is up and running?

by desertpear on 10/14/2008 06:15:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
No thanks. Mars will be a RED state.

"Objectivity lies not in balance, but in truth. And truth is more often than not unbalanced - slanted in favor of right, and against wrong." -Ed

by Ed on 10/14/2008 06:19:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Very nice sir.

by Spencer on 10/14/2008 07:13:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I thought we were giving the death penalty for puns like that.  I know that I voted for it!

by EveningStarNM on 10/14/2008 07:23:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'm a sucker for a good bad joke.

by Spencer on 10/14/2008 07:24:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
So then I take it you can't get enough of that Sarah Palin...

"Objectivity lies not in balance, but in truth. And truth is more often than not unbalanced - slanted in favor of right, and against wrong." -Ed

by Ed on 10/14/2008 11:54:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
coming home late tonight, but I got a laugh out of Red State ;)

by desertpear on 10/15/2008 02:14:08 AM EST

[ Parent ]
 Display: