Presidential Debate #2 - Town Hall Style

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This will be the thread for comments on the second Obama-McCain debate, if you can call these debates.  Please comment on the debate here.

It was kind of dull, wasn't it? And dull would be ok if it had been deeply substantive, but these debates never are.  I don't think either candidate is reflecting any genuine, original thinking, although Obama is much closer to it than McCain is.  And I hate how they have to always talk about how the Great American Military has to solve our problems.  There is very little bigger picture thinking here, although to be fair, you can hear hints of it with Obama.  Anyway, I'm glad the initial polls show Obama coming out more favorably. Things are looking good.

< Americans Don't Need "One Of Us" In The White House. | Third Debate Discussion Thread >
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I think I can safely say that I have never seen an interesting debate in my 47 years of life, and I think I have watched almost all of them with some level of anticipation.  Will I ever learn?

I thought Ifill was a horrible moderator (as was her lame excuse on Meet the Press about it), but I thought Brokaw was too.  It sounds like he only has a small amount of lung space left, which means he has to work hard to get enough air to make words.  Is that how he has always sounded?  How about Whoopi Goldberg for moderator?  Please, anybody with some vim and vigor!!  Maddow?  Cenk?  Ahhh, dream on.  

Obama is winning, so I guess it was smart to play it safe.  But I get so frustrated that they can't answer questions without rambling on and on about generalities nobody cares about.  And you have to wonder, because many Americans depend on the dumb-ass debates to make up their mind.  They will get lies and half-truths and spin.

If David feels Obama is doing good, that means we are doing great.  I feel a little apprehensive about the coming month though.  

by desertpear on 10/08/2008 12:58:25 AM EST


You know I've thought about this quite a bit.  I know everyone is desperate to hear someone tell the precise truth, yet I don't know that Americans are going to want to actually hear it.  It would be risky as hell.  The truth would go something like this:

We are so badly in debt that the government is going to probably have to cut expenditures deeply and raise taxes at the same time for years.  We have entered an age where oil production can only keep up with demand, and will slowly lose ground.  We don't have the technology to derive more than about 5% of our energy from alternative sources.  We do not have anywhere close to enough oil resources remaining in the U.S. to supply our current demand so independence is a distant dream.  We will have to make dramatic sweeping changes in our lifestyle to get through it.  It will mean sacrifices similar to or perhaps greater than those experienced in World War II.  These will happen voluntarily or chaotically, but they will happen. 

We don't have the resources to enter another ground war.  We don't have the money and we don't currently have the trained forces.  It would certainly require a draft.  Attacking Iran at this point would constitute a risk to the stability of our country.  We could simply launch air strikes, but they may retaliate by taking measures to restrict middle east oil production.  If they are successful it's possible we would not survive economically because we are already teetering on the brink of financial collapse.

  There is also an excellent chance that Russia and/or China would intervene.  Regardless of all the talk about blinking or not blinking, a ground war with either of these countries is unthinkable.  The world would spend the last few years of available oil wasting it in a huge bloody fight instead of looking for energy solutions.  It would be a worldwide catastrophe from which no one would ever fully recover.  In the end it would boil down to a nuclear exchange because Russia is the number one producer of petroleum in the world and it is not possible to wage a world war like we did in the 20th century, we consume far, far more oil than we did back then.  There are no longer enough resources to fuel that kind of madness.

Our other problems will probably end up driving the global warming problem into the background until the laws of physics forces its way back into our conciousness with a vengeance.  I haven't even touched on the other resource shortages that seem to be looming in the future, water, fisheries, food crops.

Now how can you possibly admit even half of that and still get elected? 

by bfaul on 10/08/2008 11:16:57 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Anyone notice McCain said "that one" when referring to Obama plus an earlier reference similar. This was as bad as not looking at Obama last time. Just an old white guy who feels he is so much more deserving of being President he can't understand how he is on the same stage as Obama? Or is it the old white guy dissing a N.....r? Looked like some of that to me, especially when he answered a question from a black questioner by saying "you probably never heard of fannie may etc." I'll never understand the concept of a black Republican after this election - it was hard enough before. I think this is the reason McCain lost the debate. He doesn't treat Obama like a man and it shows.  

by stanski on 10/08/2008 01:19:42 AM EST


That's even on a t-shirt already.  Every news outlet is talking about it ;)

And he couldn't even shake his hand after the debate. How awkward!!

by desertpear on 10/08/2008 02:10:01 AM EST

[ Parent ]
just wait to see what comes out of tonite!!!

by tifosies on 10/15/2008 07:57:31 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Would McCain told a white member of the audience -- you probably have never heard of Fannie Mae? Maybe, I don't know. I'm certainly not sure he would have. Let's put it that way.

I think this more damning than the "that one" reference.

by Cenk on 10/08/2008 03:31:05 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Wow, McCain just assumed that that guy was uniformed. If that guy was informed, I think McCain just lost his vote.

by evaangellus on 10/08/2008 03:36:51 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Cause McCain is a racist.

You know it Cenk, call it.  No one else will.

Or at least say you don't necessarily believe he is racist, but he sure is giving people reason to wonder.

by ProfRich on 10/08/2008 10:25:41 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Seems to me that to be able to engage in (a potentially "bloody") battle there has to be a certain amount of depersonalization of the opponent/enemy. This is one of the scary things about McCain and it speaks to his deeper character: that self-righteousness, single-headedness and ability to just see his opponent/opposing views as wrong and discountable. Hhhmmm, sounds like.... Bush!!!

by tifosies on 10/08/2008 09:09:19 AM EST

[ Parent ]

Does anyone NOT think McCain is a racist?

One or two of these incidents I could overlook, but when it happens over and over and over and you remember this is a guy who fought like hell against MLK Day, c'mon!

I have always said Bush was NOT a racists, he's a classist, but not a racist.  I call 'em like I see 'em. 

McCain is a racist.  And not just to the "gooks" he never gets tired of slandering.  He considers black people inferior.

Close the book, get a glass of cold water.

by ProfRich on 10/08/2008 10:20:22 AM EST

[ Parent ]
When I heard McCain say this, I felt, as I'm sure many did, a little uncomfortable. Though I do believe that this was McCain's way (he has done the same type of thing before) of marginalizing Obama, I honestly do not think that this should be interpreted as some underlying racist comment. I do agree in part to your first statement. McCain does not think that Obama deserves to be on stage with him. As far as the "Fannie May comment", to be fair, I believe was addressed to the general population and not so much the gentleman who asked the question. My 2 cents. Cheers!

by crazy canuck on 10/08/2008 11:26:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]

This debate did not really change the course of this race at all. I thought that the questions were very good, but nothing in this debate really stuck. 3 hours after the debate all I can remember are the quotes "that one", "my friends", "scalpel", "Russia". Anyway, nothing really happened for 90 minutes.

I think that the VP debate will have more of an effect on the race than this debate will.

On the other hand, the moderator was a complete tool. He was basically paid to sit there and complain about the candidates taking up too much time.

That's my two cents. I predict that the polls will go slightly more towards Obama. Heck, the polls might even not move at all.

Until the next debate 

~Eva

by evaangellus on 10/08/2008 03:33:34 AM EST


They need a fact checker to call out lies as soon as they happen.


Most people are not like you or I, who check up after the debates.


Many people don't bother to follow up and take the debates as they are. 

by Charm on 10/08/2008 04:37:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]

and didn't get up till now, when I have to go to work where everyone will ask me what I thought of the debate and I'm gonna have to admit that I fell asleep....

Which sux.

 

by RNinNYC on 10/08/2008 06:05:21 AM EST



My favorite line of the night.

I want a t-shirt with Obama's picture on it and the words "That One!" on the bottom.

I also loved the way McCain delivered the line.  It was his most reptilian-like, "I'm so proud of myself," rant of the evening.

Never mind that it was bullshit.  After the words, "That One!," Obama didn't even bother to respond to it.  McCain had done himself enough harm by the WAY he made his point.

Had Obama answered the charge, he would have said that Congress had no choice but to vote for an energy bill that would pass, even though it gave WAY too much to the Oil companies.  If there was no new bill, then the restrictions on offshore drilling was set to expire.  There would have been a free-for-all of oil rigs littering our coastline.  The reason McCain voted against the bill was not because it gave $Billions to the oil companies, but because he wanted to allow unfettered access to our coast for the oil companies.

But why bother answering McCain's charge, when the charge itself was so incriminating to McCain?

by rbruck on 10/08/2008 11:22:48 AM EST


McCain kept naming his "heroes."  Anyone keep track of how many times he did that?  At least three or four, I believe.  With every "hero" he added to that roster, I found myself increasingly believing that McCain must have had one seriously shitty comic book collection.

by OneHitKill on 10/08/2008 11:42:44 AM EST


Comic books? When McCain was a kid they didn't have no comic books.  Drawing hadn't even been invented yet.

Shiiiiiiiiiit. When McCain was a kid they didn't have mythology!

In all seriousness, my high school son picked up on this right away.  The second mention of his hero and he says "I thought he just said Reagan was his hero?"

And in case anyone is making a list, don't leave out Eisenhower, who he called his hero right before making up a bullshit story about Ike.

by ProfRich on 10/08/2008 12:56:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Too bad he can't name a hero any of the young generation actually heard of. Not much of a way to win the youth vote when you talk about Teddy Roosevelt and Ron Reagan. I've been working on registering voters who weren't born when Reagan left office.  

by stanski on 10/08/2008 05:00:26 PM EST


The look on McCain's face when Obama brought up the bomb Iran song.

It was like he was reliving all of his most embarrassing  childhood moments in one. Seeing his mom naked, peeing his pants in Kindergarten, that first inconvenient erection, all of them.

Palin in 2012? Bitch, please! No, really, please run in 2012, bitch. ;)

by richardshort2001 on 10/09/2008 12:18:48 AM EST


It wasn't just that Obama gave the roundhouse kick with Bomb, Bomb Iran Chuck Norris style.

It was McCain leaning into, hell he ran into, the punch.

Obama begins by praising McCain's long years experience.  McCain, unable to control himself, gets the world's biggest shit-eating grin and actually begins to bounce up and down like a retard.  Evidently he was a pretty big believer in the idea that Obama praising or agreeing with him helped McCain so he got really excited, like twba watching a Palin rally excited.

I was cooking dinner and said, before Obama could continue, to my wife and son, "How stupid is this guy, doesn't he know what's about to happen?"

Then, boom goes the dynamite.  Obama goes Bomb, Bomb on his ass and McCain goes from shit-eating grin to a man who looks like he has been cleaning toilets with his tongue.

So for me the best moment of the night wasn't McCain getting put in his place, it was when McCain got so happy, happier than I have ever seen him, while he was getting his ass teed up.  He had to be the only person in America not to realize what was coming.  The guy is a joke.

by ProfRich on 10/09/2008 09:09:23 AM EST

[ Parent ]
He's such a fool that he doesn't see it coming.  He's grinning like The Penguin, rising on his toes like he does.  I think I'm going to start calling him Twinkletoes.

by desertpear on 10/09/2008 09:44:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I think that's the key to landing some good punches: reel him in with a compliment to appeal to that big fat ego he has had stoked for years by the touting of his "Maverick" and "POW" identities, then place a nice, civil uppercut of truth on his chin! KO, baby!!!!!!

by tifosies on 10/11/2008 10:43:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]
There was one winner and three hundred million losers in that debate.

by Twba on 10/09/2008 05:09:56 AM EST


Waterboard all four of them and see what truths come out.

by desertpear on 10/15/2008 02:23:28 AM EST


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