MMA REPOST: BECAUSE CENK KEEPS BUTCHERING

Email Print posted by chrisandyasemin 10/09/2008 09:01:31 PM EST

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I'm gonna be honest, I've been wanting to write something on MMA lately since the new season of TUF (one of the few reality shows I can bear to watch, that and Project Runway) has started.
So Cenk talking about MMA briefly today has given me a good reason to post something fun about this.

First off, I take issue with off-hand remarks calling the sport unregulated. It is regulated. People's eyeballs DO NOT get pulled out of their eye sockets during fights. There are a number of things off the bat that you will not see in an MMA fight, particularly in a UFC fight: eye gouging, blows to the groin, biting, hair pulling, stuff like that (duh). Those are the obvious ones, other things that have been banned and measures that have been taken to make the sport safer are these, from the UFC website:
Absolute adherence to commission mandated rules for MMA:
Commission approved gloves
Weight classes
Time limits and rounds
Mandatory drug testing
No head butting or kicking to the downed opponent
No knees to the head of a downed opponent
No downward point of the elbow strikes
No strikes to the spine or the back of the head
No groin or throat strikes
State Athletic Commission approval in such major states as New Jersey, Nevada, Florida & Louisiana.

This isn't the same MMA of the 90's that the Gracie Family started: that was raw, no rules. But now you can get disqualified in a fight for all sorts of stuff, so I guarantee you, unless there's a freak accident you are not going to see someone loose an eyeball.

I think Cenk should give it another chance (at least for the Octagon girls) but if he's not gonna watch it at least he should spare the TYT community the SMEAR (smear stops here), cause clearly he doesn't know anything about the actual sport, its hardly a gladiator's fight, come on!

It is also injury-wise and mortality-wise a much safer sport than football and boxing. There are doctors on the sidelines and trained referees who will stop a fight if needed.

A lot of people like to make MMA sound like it's a bunch of brawlers going in a cage and duking it out when its really not. Kimbo Slice was a brawler and people like him get knocked out QUICK, they rarely ever make it to the top, but the people at the top with titles are talented athletes who have trained hard in several martial arts disciplines to get to where they are. Anderson Silva (middleweight) is an amazing athlete, focused and classy and a friggin Muay Thai genius. BJ Penn is awesome on the ground, and St Pierre is just plain awesome (although I'm worried that he has gotten too big, if he's on 'roids I will be so disappointed).

To give credit to people who are starting to watch it: its hard, and its hard to watch some dude get knocked out or caught in a ground-n-pound, but if you're already used to watching boxing matches it should be an easy transition.

The reality is that these guys train for these fights and situations, so they've been caught in ground-n-pounds and knocked out before. And for perspective, I don't see really how this is much different than an Olympic gymnast tripping and falling or dudes tackling each other in football or rugby.

Plus, if you ever hang around to watch a fight until the end, you will most likely see the two fighters embrace each other at the end of the fight...

Y.

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MMA REPOST: BECAUSE CENK KEEPS BUTCHERING | 53 comments (53 topical, 0 hidden)
I don't watch MMA (none / 0)
I went out one night and we met up at some bar for someone's birthday and they featured a big MMA event.

Some people at the table were HARDCORE MMA fans, and they were really into it.

I don't have strong feelings on it. If it's one I glance at it here and there...hard not to look when two adults are beating the shit out of each other.

But my only real take away from that night was the fact that while we no longer have Gladiators fighting in Colliseums, we essentially have the same audience.

The only thing missing is the Emperor who comes out after the matches to ask the crowd for the thumbs up or thumbs down.

;)

by ihavenobias on 10/09/2008 10:06:57 PM EST

Evolution (none / 0)

What you're defending is two people beating each other as hard as they can to hurt each other as much as they can to win according to some dehumanizing criteria as quickly as they can.  That they are regulated makes no difference to the brutalizing effect these events have on society.

Prediction: We'll need at least another two centuries for our minds to evolve enough so that we no longer desire to watch or participate in su ch pointlessly destructive behavior.  Fortunately, some of us are ahead of the curve.

by EveningStarNM on 10/09/2008 10:30:22 PM EST

did you even read what I wrote? (none / 0)
to hurt each other as much as they can

that is a misstatement clearly made from a person who is unfamiliar with the sport. Really? If they were out there to hurt eachother as much as they can they'd just kick each other in the nuts. You can lock someone's arm up and make them tap without giving them a single injury. But when people fight like idiots they are gonna get hurt.

 In the end, these people put themselves out there, into the octagon by freewill and to earn some money, its their own life choice, and guess what, ALL of them are happy with their careers. Not a single one will say, when asked "hey I hate fighting, it sucks." They love it, and guess what, I've practiced a number of Martial arts, Muay Thai, Jeet Kun Do and TKD, and I don't mind getting pushed around a little and if I was good enough I probably wouldn't mind getting punched, whatever, not gonna go around crying about it, geez, after all, I signed up for it, duh.

Looks like you just posted on here to state your opinion without even bothering to read what I actually wrote about the misconceptions of this sport otherwise you'd realize that what you've just said makes no sense.

And again, the big difference between gladiators and MMA fighters: gladiators were killed in the end and they were there INVOLUNTARILY, but not MMA fighters.

 I would like you to bring me some health statistics and injury statistics of professional MMA fighters and some of Football players and boxers, then lets have a conversation and see which sport is more brutal.

Y.

by chrisandyasemin on 10/09/2008 11:02:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
yaz (none / 0)
I can't convince these guys to like pet rats either ;)

by desertpear on 10/09/2008 11:11:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't put much thought behind MMA (none / 0)
Just like I don't really think about boxing.

I'm just not that fired up on the subject either way, but when it comes up I can't help but point out the comparison to the audience of the Coliseum because it's such a good one.

The spectacle has changed but the general sentiment is the same. That's meant to be more of an observation than a judgement.

by ihavenobias on 10/09/2008 11:20:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
EEEEeeeewwwwwwww! RATS! Ick! (none / 0)

by EveningStarNM on 10/09/2008 11:21:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Isn't that crazy? (none / 0)
Cause rats can be very cute:)

You know Project Runway is actually very brutal too, 'cause sometimes Nina Garcia and Michael Khors say some REALLY harsh things to those poor designers. Its not nice, and we have devolved brains for watching it, absolute inhumanity.

Y.

by chrisandyasemin on 10/09/2008 11:24:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]
well, many girls like rats, just not guys (none / 0)
and you are right--Project Runway is one of the most violent and cruel shows I've ever seen!!

by desertpear on 10/09/2008 11:30:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yes, yes, yes, I read what you wrote. (none / 0)

"If they were out there to hurt eachother as much as they can they'd just kick each other in the nuts."

So I'll ask you: did you read what I wrote?

They try to hurt each other as much as they can to win.  Getting disqualified for breaking one of the regulations, such as by kicking someone in the nuts, is not winning.

As far as health and injury statistics are concerned, puleeze.  If a guy gets up from the mat bleeding because he's just had his skull pummeled, no reasonable person would require statistics to make the inference that the sport is not dissimilar to another tightly regulated sport in which people have died from being punched in the head.

I stand by what I said.

by EveningStarNM on 10/09/2008 11:28:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
there is only 1 recorded death (none / 0)
from an mma fight...it was unsanctioned, and the guy that died did not get cleared to fight by a doctor.  It was NOT in the USA, and it was NOT an organization.  Otherwise there have been no deaths from MMA.  There have been at least 2 ring related boxing deaths THIS YEAR alone in the professional organizations.  This is a big misconception.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/09/2008 11:32:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
That's pure rationalization. (none / 0)

by EveningStarNM on 10/09/2008 11:35:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
not at all (none / 0)
those are the statistics...I'm not saying that either one is "barbaric", other people are.  I would only have to rationalize if I was saying that mma was "better".  I'm purely saying that mma has been proven to be less lethal by time, how is that rationalization?

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/09/2008 11:39:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Okay...i see where you're going (none / 0)
let's compare this to gymnastics then...
there have been more deaths in gymnastics than MMA...

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/09/2008 11:43:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
this isn't? (none / 0)
As far as health and injury statistics are concerned, puleeze.  If a guy gets up from the mat bleeding because he's just had his skull pummeled, no reasonable person would require statistics to make the inference that the sport is not dissimilar to another tightly regulated sport in which people have died from being punched in the head.

by chrisandyasemin on 10/09/2008 11:40:52 PM EST

[ Parent ]
the bottom line is (none / 0)
If you are going to call MMA brutal and those who watch it having devolved brains than you will have to say that for every other sport: football, boxing, gymnastics, water polo...

The thing you are not getting about MMA is that it isn't just about punching and hurting each other, its a physical and mental chess game, and you can only understand that if you understand the martial arts techniques they are using and the mental game that is happenning in that octagon, and I guess if you've personally ever fought (and it lasted more than just  seconds).

Most of the fights you will see will end up on the ground at which time the fighters can indeed punch but they will also try to maneuver their bodies and weight into a position to get a good lock or a guillotine or a choke or anything else that may be in their arsenals. Like I said, these guys are not brawlers, they are professionals. So when I watch a fight, I see techniques and accumulation of experience and athleticism and the successful (or unsuccessful) flow of moves changing from wrestling to Jui-jitsu. But I guess when someone else who isn't familiar with it watches an MMA fight, all they see is blood and punches and guys wrapped around eachother. It seems like, from talking to people who don't know what MMA fights are really about, that to them, it is like looking at a foreign script or listening to music in a different language, it just looks weird or sounds weird, so therefore it must BE weird. But in reality the people who UNDERSTAND it because they KNOW it can, well, understand it, and appreciate it for what its worth.

Opera sounds like a bunch of jibberish to me, I will never be able to like it, because I don't understand it, and I don't know it. But at least I ADMIT my ignorance about that and don't call others barbaric etc for liking it.

Y

by chrisandyasemin on 10/10/2008 12:01:41 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Evolution II (none / 0)

Just once I want to hear a defender of one of these bloody, destructive and violent sports say they like it just because of those characteristics.  Skirting the obvious issues as you do only makes you sound dishonest.

by EveningStarNM on 10/10/2008 01:05:30 AM EST

[ Parent ]
not gonna happen (none / 0)
Because like I said above, that is not what I see. That is what you see cause you don't understand it.

I am a girl, I don't like to see senseless violence its not in my nature. Not on the news, not in the street. I don't like to see a child get beat or a woman get raped. in fact I don't even like to think of it, it makes me sick... and you are lumping all of these things together because you are ignorant of the sport, and again, all you see is blood. These things are not the same. These are two willing people stepping into an arena to test their skills: their skills that they have been training for years.

Just as you will never get it, so shall I never say it is about the blood, cause it is not.

Just once, I'd like to hear opposers of this sport say "look, I have no idea what an arm-lock is and I don't care to ever learn, so I will just hate what I don't understand because it is easier than learning."

Y

by chrisandyasemin on 10/10/2008 07:14:29 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You don't see the violence and blood? (none / 0)

Those things on your head?  Around your eyes?  They're called "blinders".

by EveningStarNM on 10/10/2008 10:40:36 AM EST

[ Parent ]
wow... (none / 0)
my girlfriend is more tolerant of blood than a bunch of LEEBERAL DUDES...she didn't say there WAS NO BLOOD...if you focus on the blood and violence out of context, then yes, that's all you see, but that is not what the fans are focused on...this makes me proud that my woman is the person defending MMA against a bunch of DUDES...

chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/10/2008 11:02:17 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You said... (none / 0)

"...that is not what the fans are focused on."


I don't believe you.  I am convinced that the violence and pain and blood that result from the efforts of one person to completely dominate another are the absolute main attraction of this activity you call a "sport".  When you look at the faces of the fighters after a match, what are your thoughts and feelings when you see the swollen eyes and blood and bruises?  What about those who have problems regaining full consciousness?  Do you worry for them?  Or are you pleased when someone has been beaten so badly that they don't comprehend that they're wrestling with the referee?  Are you concerned that some people may never recover fully from such concussions?


You have absolutely missed the point of this entire conversation.  It's not about the "sport".  It's about you.


 

by EveningStarNM on 10/11/2008 10:00:33 AM EST

[ Parent ]
once again... (none / 0)
You are imposing YOUR observations of the sport onto us.  Just because all YOU see is bloody faces, dudes being half-unconscious and wrestling refereees, doesn't mean that's what WE want to see.  Those things don't happen nearly as often as you try to make them seem like they do.  This is why they have  DOCTOR ringside, so that if something bad is to happen, the medical treatment is 10 feet away.  Of course you feel bad for someone who gets their eye swollen/bloodied, but that's what they signed up for.  You feel much more empathy for someone who gets hurt as a VICTIM, not as a willing participant.  You are trying to imply that we are HAPPY when someone gets the tar beat out of them.  Let me make this clear, ELITE XC is a freak show, and we don't watch it.  KIMBO SLICE is a FREAK, and he's not a professional just because he gets paid.

It's about you.conversation.  It's not about the "sport".  It's about you

You're determined to keep yourself ignorant about the sport, and you're determined not to change your preconceived notions about what the sport entails.  You're acting like a republican .  You have said yourself that STATISTICS don't matter with this.  WHY THE FUCK NOT?  

This is a terrible argument, and you've got no logical basis, except, "This is changing evolution"


We started off as fucking hunter gatherers...you show me one carniverous animal that doesn't have to get violent...

Is this personal for you?  Have you been in a fight and lost, and now you want to attack everyone who knows how to fight.  To me it almost sounds like jealousy because my girlfriend can defend herself better than you and most males in the world.  Obviously you're not going to change your opinion, we're just trying to figure out why you made this personal.  It's like your last resort is trying to make us look "Evil" or "barbaric".   

Evening star has just become a character assassin

Good job 

Chris 

by chrisandyasemin on 10/11/2008 02:12:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Thank you. (none / 0)

Yes!  Exactly!  I AM questioning your character!

Jeepers!  It sure took you a long time to understand that.

by EveningStarNM on 10/11/2008 02:45:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
that's because (none / 0)
I thought "for sure evening star wouldn't be using character attacks to make a point"...guess I was wrong...don't blame me for giving you the benefit of the doubt

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/11/2008 03:10:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'll try one last time: (none / 0)

In the end, morality and ethics are always questions of character.

You have chosen to ignore my questions about your thoughts and feelings upon witnessing certain events.  You have chosen to avoid those questions by focusing, instead, on what you claim to be my "ignorance" of the technicalities of an activity that you call a "sport".  You have chosen to deny the fact that my questions have nothing to do with any technicalities that may or may not be a part of that activity.

My questions were about your thoughts and feelings.  Sadly, you have avoided those questions.  And what's worse, if you were to attempt to answer those questions now, I would have to consider that you might lie about your feelings.

by EveningStarNM on 10/11/2008 03:39:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Not Buyin it (none / 0)
yasi clearly stated what she sees when she watches the sport, and also how she feels when REAL violence is portrayed.  Nobody has to prove anything to you, but you're the one who has a problem with "us" apparently, and not even the sport.  If you want to get into word games and semantics, whatever. 

Go ahead and question our characters, we don't have to answer to anybody about OUR character.  We'll defend MMA, but if you're trying to make this a referendum on Chris and Yasemin, go ahead, I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR OPINION OF ME OR MY GIRLFRIEND...

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/11/2008 04:41:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Thank you. (none / 0)

Now, if I can just get a bunch of other people who like your so-called "sport" to display their attitudes the same obnoxious way that you have, that so-called "sport" will begin to disappear.

You forgot: you're the fan of the so-called "sport" and it's up to you to defend it.  Because it's violent, the case against it is prima facie.  To defend your so-called "sport", you also will have to defend your character -- that's simple logic.  Therefore, it's your judgment that's in question.  Insulting or criticizing people who want less violence in our society is an automatic forfeit.

Sorry, but those are the rules of this sport.  And it's not me you have to worry about.  It's everyone else who will read your vicious attitude that you have to convince.

by EveningStarNM on 10/11/2008 06:57:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
McEvening (none / 0)
Maybe I'm just more evolved than you because I can separate fighting and anger...I can fight without getting angry, and I can get angry without fighting...

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/11/2008 07:08:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Who said anything about anger? (none / 0)

Oh!  That was just another attempt to distract.  That's  very Republican of you.  But the technique really is too familiar -- they've been using it for a long time.

by EveningStarNM on 10/11/2008 07:41:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
spade for spade (none / 0)
I guess it's "distraction" from the attacks on our character?

this conversation on your side apparently has been nothing but hate towards us, so are you really in a position to question someone's character?  

You're the one that took a perfectly legitimate LEGAL sport, and attacked our character for defending the sport

Who's the repug here Mcevening?

Chris  

by chrisandyasemin on 10/11/2008 08:27:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Chris and Yasemin (none / 0)

That's just it. I do NOT hate you.  I have never said that.  I don't even think you're bad people.  In fact, I think you are GOOD people.  I've seen how you are and how you act and what you do all over this forum.  It is not possible for me to hate you or to believe anything other than that you are not merely worth my time but that you are valuable and necessary members of my community.

What's more, I've seen your ability to use logic, and in case you haven't noticed, the ability to use logic is one of the three personal characteristics that I value most.  The other two are honesty, and concern for the well-being of our community.  I've seen all three of those characteristics in you, as well as many other good qualities.

There are some here whom I consider to be absolutely worthless and dangerous to my community.  That should be obvious.  It also should be obvious that I have avoided treating you that way.

But now we've found a subject about which we disagree, and as I see it, the nature of the subject has profound consequences for our community.  Is the promotion of needless violence a good thing?  I don't think so.

You've chosen to avoid the question by attacking me.

If I see it, I'm going to call you on your shit.  If you're less than honest or if you're making a mistake, I will redouble my efforts until it's clear that you are beyond redemption.  But I have to give you that chance: I will call you on your shit.

If you do the same for me, then it's just family stuff.  But you're going to have to convince me, and I'm pretty smart.

I'm not asking for any skin off your backs.  I'm asking you to look at yourselves and to tell me what you see.  Are you unable to acknowledge that terrible personal violence is the defining characteristic of this "sport" you talk about?  Do you believe that such violence, freely exercised, makes our world a better place?

Pointless insults are not recommended in this kind of argument.

by EveningStarNM on 10/11/2008 09:51:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'm glad to stay away from personal arguments (none / 0)
terrible personal violence is the defining characteristic of this "sport"

That's what we've been trying to tell you:it's not

This sport is not about "personal violence".
The fighters in the ring often go out for beers after fighting each other, and sometimes they train with each other, and have to fight in the ring on the professional stage because it's their job.  If it were senseless, blind rage where people just attacked random strangers, it would be "personal violence".  

Personal violence is not the defining "characteristic" of this sport, and plays little to no part in the sport.  That's where we have to agree to disagree.

I will acknowledge that organizations like Elite X-C put on freak shows, and Kimbo Slice is a circus act, but that doesn't represent MMA, and it doesn't do me any good when I have to defend the sport because people like you see Kimbo Slice and equate that with this sport.  I completely understand how you can see the Kimbo garbage and jump to a conclusion, but our whole point has been that MMA as a sport is not represented by Kimbo, and you have been making statements about MMA based on the "circus sideshow".  

I'm not trying to convince you to watch it, but I have to say that as a person who trains MMA, it teaches the fighter to be disciplined and to restrict your usage of your weapons to the ring, and last resort self defense.  The real practitioners of this sport often hold college degrees and advanced degrees, so this is not a sport of meatheads.  When I watch the sport, I watch for technical skills, I watch for the domination of will, and I watch to see the human spirit triumph, and fight the way only two people can fight each other.  It's a true battle of the wills, and the body is only the vehicle for the battle to take place.  Mental prowess serves the fighters just as much if not more than physical prowess, because a fighter must be able to outwit his opponent, while not making a mistake to allow his opponent to beat him, exactly like chess.  This is why people who practice see the match as a "chess game" rather than a bloody battle of two men/women.  When you realize that there are literally thousands of combinations of body movements that can be applied in the ring, you realize that it takes much more thought to win than brawn, because although one person may land a punch, it could be because a person is setting them up for a submission.  

I played a lot of competitive sports growing up, so maybe it is in my nature to engage in sports competition, and not yours so you'll never be able to understand my motivations behind the interest/practice.  

I do consider TYT family, and I realize that you don't have to agree with family all the time...

I still hope you don't think that I'm somehow "ducking the question" as to what I feel when I watch the sport, because I think I made a pretty good explanation that doesn't need to be "lied" about because I have nothing to prove...the sports already legal, so we don't have to make that case

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/11/2008 10:17:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Final Thoughts (none / 0)

"This sport is not about 'personal violence'... The fighters in the ring often go out for beers after fighting each other..."

Those "beers" don't get shown on TV.  What gets shown on TV is two people beating each other as hard as they can, the result often being blood, bruises, and semi-consciousness for at least one of the fighters.

"Personal violence is not the defining 'characteristic' of this sport, and plays little to no part in the sport."

If two people beating on each other isn't personal violence then there is no such thing.  And if two people don't beat on each other then your "sport" doesn't exist.

As to your final point: Betting on credit default swaps is legal, too.  How's that working out?  Oh!  That's right.  A perfectly legal activity has nearly destroyed the economy of the entire world.

Pardon my sarcasm, but in any discussion of any other subject, you would never tolerate the kind of illogical and -- to be generous -- incorrect arguments you've made here.  I should call them "dishonest" arguments, but I choose to believe -- again, to be generous -- that you simply can't see it.

I've spent enough time on this.  I'm done.

by EveningStarNM on 10/11/2008 11:09:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
just got done watching a fight (none / 0)
and neither fighter had a visible bruise or blood...both happened to be jiu jitsu fighters, so they weren't trying to knock each other out...

They DO show the guys getting beers together on tv, and they show them living together, and training together, and going through family problems together.  It humanizes them, so you feel for them even MORE when they lose, and even MORE when they when.  I think you're just missing what we empathize about.  When an ILLEGAL hit lands during a match, I cringe just like anyone else.  You just cringe when you see any thing I guess.

As far as "incorrect arguments"...you're the one that immediately went to the "character" attacks when we were trying to explain the technicalities of the sport to show that it's not just MINDLESS VIOLENCE...but apparently you don't want to accept that fighting can have technique and nuance to make it above senseless violence to the point that the fight can end in no bloodshed.  If you watched a fight, you would realize that if a person is bleeding too much to fight, the fight immediately ends so they can receive medical attention.

As far as the quote above, you left out parts of the quote on purpose...and you're saying that I AM TRYING TO BE DECEPTIVE?  this has been one big waste of both of our times...I'm just going to stop before I offend you, because I have thick enough skin to take this one,
"Pardon my sarcasm, but in any discussion of any other subject, you would never tolerate the kind of illogical and -- to be generous -- incorrect arguments you've made here.  I should call them "dishonest" arguments, but I choose to believe -- again, to be generous -- that you simply can't see it"

You know what, I still have respect for you, and I'm not going to rebut this one, I'm going to stop this here, because this argument has already gotten too personal, and if it gets any more personal, I'm just going to have to call it done.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/11/2008 11:27:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
There is a higher explanation (none / 0)
Violence and sex are two basic (base) instincts in all living things. The former meant for self preservation and the latter for perpetuation. These are in us for a good purpose but they must be on a leash. In a civilised society, it is in the interest of everyone to have some limits placed on the raw display of these instincts in public. Obviously it is fun to watch with the adrenalin roaring and heart thumping.The young quickly get addicted to such sports and sooner they are going to be asking for more. The vicious spiral only gets worse and what no one knows is how much of it is  getting into our normal workaday lives, which is getting more violent and hateful.

Unfortunately, what is affecting the American economy and social life is the same thing, lack of regulation. Again, it is easier to say we need regulation but the billion dollar question is to whom do we entrust this job? We need to start thinking on these lines quickly to avoid complete breakdown of society and the economy

by letusmeetinheaven on 10/10/2008 04:58:59 AM EST

lack of regulation? (none / 0)
Did you not read what the post says either? This whole thread was about REGULATION and how there is a missconception that there is no regulation in MMA. There is! Read about it above, geez, people I make this information so accessible to those who are too lazy to look it up, its right there, and yet still, people can't be bothered to take a second to educate themselves.

Really? Lack of regulation? To those who actually read the thread, you just made yourself look so ignorant for what you just said.

Yepper, world coming to an end, all that cultural decline we've been having yawn since people have been able to write history they've been yawn writing of ther decline of mankind.

If you want to talk about economic deregulation, HAVE AT IT, I think we all argee that deregulation has fucked us over,but this is the wrong forum for that.

Read the post and you'll understand that the sport is REGULATED, just like any other sport.

Y

by chrisandyasemin on 10/10/2008 07:20:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You need to get into my shoes (none / 0)
 What I am trying to say is that pointless violence cannot be  used as mass entertainment, notwithstanding the hard work of the participants and their awesome skills. There is something called wholesome entertainment which breeds love and joy, believe me, it exists. If it didn't, it will need to be invented.
Open your eyes, don't we have more blood and gore around us today than everbefore? Aren't the prisons not overflowing with all sorts of criminals? Is that the America that we would like to live in? Money and the spotlight is not everything.

Let us start working for a nation our children would be proud to belong to.

Violent sports  is the wrong channel  

by letusmeetinheaven on 10/10/2008 09:01:59 AM EST

[ Parent ]
yawn (none / 0)
You are trying to say that we shoulda all be entertained in the same way? We should all watch Leave it to Beaver? Look, we are not robots and while some people may like to watch cartoons, other may like porn, others may like to watch fights and hey, some like to go out and hunt and kill animals.

The point is, we live in America where people don't  tell you what is and isn't appropriate to watch. Allow me to make my own decision as to what I choose to watch, and if it IS indeed unwholesome than perhaps I will go to hell? Oh wait that doesn't apply to me cause I don't believe in a hell.

What is your point? Is it that you still don't get MMA? You still don't get that it is about a physical skill and agility? You seemed to recognize it and yet you find it not "wholesome" and nobody said it was.

Guess what, the world is not black and white, its not as simple as simpletons would like it to be. Things aren't either good or bad and you shouldn't be either for something or against it, the world is too complex to be filtered thru the "simple" filter.

Look, just your use of the term "pointless voilence" to describe MMA gives away the fact that you don't get the point of this. The point of fighting is the same point of competing to be the best a la the Olympics. What's the point of trying to outrun a bunch of other dudes? Is it pointless? Why should Michael Phelps get all those gold medals? Its so pointless...

So what I'm saying is that from a sports perspective the point is to win and to become the best.

Now we come to the means by which one gets to that... running fast vs fighting, I guess. Yeah running fast doesn't hurt anyone.

What you are trying to do is put fighting in the same category as bombing a building, beating a wife, and a bully picking on a kid in the school yard, because the world is black and white to you.

I don't know if I should even bother trying to re-explain this. I feel that what you have is an "opinion" which is fine, OK, you don't like MMA. Done. But the problem come when you are judging others for liking it and saying that one "channel" is inappropriate. To you yes, to me no.

The sport is regulated therefore it is legal and therefore it is legit. The reason dog fighting or cock fighting is illegal is because you can't ask the cock if he'd like to fight or not, he has no choice... But these fighters go out there voluntarily and sometimes they get hurt and sometimes they don't. Some people like to watch it for the blood and some hate it because of the blood and some people like me like to watch it because of the athletism and technique of these fighters, some of us are Muay-Thai buffs and appriciate a well placed knee because rather tahn associate that with the result or blood or violence, we associate it with the practice and discipline that went into the construction of such good form and the capability for the fighter to find the opening in which to execute the form.

Sorry this is probably too technical for you, the part that you either missed in the post or that you are ignoring is that if you indeed watched a fight you'd see that the fighters almost always embrace after the fight. They don't go out there because they hate eachother (although they like to talk smack) but they go out there to see who is the better fighter at that place and time and they respect eachother after a good fight. But you probably wouldn't understand that, because your head just exploded at the foreign idea that two guys can duke it out and then show each other respect and compassion because the world is black and white for you... and anything you don't understand is evil and must be done away with. Sucks to be you.

Y

by chrisandyasemin on 10/10/2008 09:46:30 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Ultimately Foolish Crap (none / 0)
UFC is garbage.  That chainlink around the ring is completely redundant.  Watch PRIDE instead.  But never watch it with other foreigners at a bar in Tokyo, unless you want some clumsy fool knocking a beer all over your legs while he tries to demonstrate his "special move" on a nearby buddy.

by OneHitKill on 10/10/2008 10:02:10 AM EST

More ignorance (none / 0)
you're showing your ignorance on this one...Pride got bought by UFC, so those two organizations are now one and the same.  "Special moves"  this isn't fucking professional wrestling...how is a chainlink redundant?  It would only be redundant if the fence was around ring ropes...your statement just doesn't even make sense...

chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/10/2008 10:23:36 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Yoga FLAME (none / 0)

Are you seeking revenge on me for that goofy music conversation we had a while back?

Special moves was a reference to Street Fighter, not pro wrestling.  Both are easily comparable to the circus that is UFC, and both cause bursts of violence in drunk idiots.

by OneHitKill on 10/10/2008 10:30:32 AM EST

[ Parent ]
music conversation? (none / 0)
I'm not sure which music conversation you're referring to, because I've had a few...if it was the bob dylan one, i'm not harboring any bad feelings, i don't feel i was wrong, i just spoke generically first, then clarified myself for those "Music theorists"...i guess i missed the street fighter reference...the ALCOHOL is what causes violence in drunken idiots...you can go to any given bar, and chances are violence will happen regardless of whether there's UFC on the screen or not...What i was trying to point out, is that you're calling PRIDE professional, and UFC a circus, when they're THE SAME ORGANIZATION NOW...i'm not saying you're ignorant about everything at all...just MMA.

by chrisandyasemin on 10/10/2008 10:58:53 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Rampage (none / 0)
Please don't powerbomb me.

by OneHitKill on 10/11/2008 10:39:39 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Sense (none / 0)
(Watch old PRIDE.  From before the buyout and subsequent deterioration.)

by OneHitKill on 10/11/2008 10:37:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Cenk got it wrong (none / 0)
it's been said before...don't kill the messenger! It was excrutiating for me to listen to the post game show yesterday to hear Cenk, Ben and yes even Jayar have so little background information on MMA and even Kimbo Slice himself. Even though the points Jayar was trying to make was more so geared around Petruzelli, it was like nails on a chalkboard.
Kimbo Slice should not even be mentioned with MMA at this point, he is a bodyguard street fighter who made it big because of YouTube. Of coooourse he was garbage in his fight and didn't know how to defend himself on the ground, if you're lucky enough to get close enough to him without getting knocked out yourself, he has no clue what type of Martial art he needs to use to defend himself let alone disarm his opponent!
I am a huge sports fan, boxing included but I've gravitated more to MMA due to the fact that the fighters should be knowledgable in Martial Arts and wrestling as a form of defence rather than just using your hands as a wall. This gives them use of their hands and legs to put their opponent out of commission which means they are not always trying to inflict the most pain unto each other to win.
I'm not going to lie, when I first started watching UFC it was so barbaric, but once you learn the rules, the techniques, it's not as bad as I first perceived. It takes a lot of hard training in different areas which is where the respect is attributed to.
I am going to watch a live MMA fight tonight!

To each their own, and if you can't agree...take it to the Cage! lol

by MintieFresh on 10/10/2008 12:25:33 PM EST

THANK YOU (none / 0)
and as far as Ben's statement,"No MMA fighter could hang with any professional boxer"...that's a ridiculous statement because most MMA fighters practice western boxing/Muay Thai...professional boxers accel at pugilism, but it's not REAL fighting...hell MMA isn't REAL fighting because there are rules.  Roy Jones Jr. Will not fight anderson Silva, and Floyd mayweather retracted his comments about MMA fighters being inferior after he started to train MMA.  The top boxers in the world will even admit that MMA is "superior" because it's all-inclusive.  

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/10/2008 12:52:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Them's Fightin' Words if I Ever Heard'em ! (none / 0)

While I honestly have to-date and continue to respect EveningStar's opinions on every issue I have read here (@ TYT) posted by EveningStar, this is one time when I unequivacly dissagree and must side with chrisandyasemin.

I too spent many years in the martial arts myself (hence the handle SnowTiger which is my association affiliation's name ie. SnowTiger Martial Arts). I studied the "disaplines" of Karate, Jui-Jitsu and Kung Fu for approximately 5 years in the Dojo and another 7 years on my own. As such, I concur that if I was ever afraid of getting a swat in the face, I wouldn't have been there. 

I went through much of my early life being  ... well .. "a runt" and arguably with a big mouth to boot (pun intended). I hope only the latter holds true to this day if anything.

The "only death" as reported in this blog actually took place in Ontario, Canada (if I do recall correctly), during late 1992 (although I really should have researched prior to commenting on this point). Anyway, I recall this time period simply because during the summer of 1991, I participated in a National Martial Arts Tournament in Toronto on behalf of the club I was a member of. It was very shortly after this time that the death occured, causing a nation-wide ban of "full contact" fighting in Canada. This has only since been lifted in Alberta, and Quebec (as far as I know) and only sanctioned events are permitted in those provinces. This resurgance is a direct result of the strict and specific safety rules quoted by chrisandyasemin.

Due to these very specific and rigidly followed and enforced rules, combined with the fact that only the very best and well trained fighters are permitted to participate (at least at the televised level), the sport has gained notoriety over the past few years as being very safe when compared to many other, "seemingly far less brutal" sports.

Unfortunately, the fact remains that there are other legues of mixed martial art fighting (which are not to be confused with MMA and Zuffa's UFC), where strict rules are not enforced that can and likely do present more "potential" dangers to fighter's health. None the less, no deaths or really serious injuries have been reported even at those less-regulated events (again.. to my knowledge).

MMA/UFC are likely here to stay and will continue to grow in popularity if recent years are any indication. Sure, it may well be most popular with those with slightly sadistic or savage inner tendancies (although, I don't really believe those descriptions are true). But, sports like this "may" actually reduce the number of those who might otherwise act out in society, simply because they have a form of "release" by having opportunity to watch others "beat on each other".

Of course, this too is only my opinion, but I trust it is shared by millions of people (as ratings would appear to indicate). However, in fairness to EveningStar, I can easily see why many people are offended by this and other similar and/or related sports. The fact is, "if you are not into it, you are not into it" and are likely to frown on the overall thought of it. But please don't take it away from those that do like and appreciate the "sport" for that which it is (regardless of their reasons for liking it). And if for no other reason than to prove the it truly is a sport, I emplore you to watch one night of a UFC (i.e. pay-per-view) event in it's entirety before making final judgement re: whether it really is a legitimate sport or not or really all that savage-like. I beleive you will see that unlike many or even most "conventional" or "olympic-type" sports (the latter of which also includes light contact martial arts), the competators are very respectful of each other and never want to see anyone get seriously hurt. There is little to no hateful or violent emotions towards each other. In fact, generally just the opposite.

One of the best examples of real sportsmanship and humility is as chrisandyasemin has indicated, is Canada's George "Rush" St. Pierre, who is the "UFC World Welterwieght Champion". He is the apitomy of a well rounded and extremely talented fighter (and overall martial artist). As such, I do take "slight" issue with chrisandyasmin's suggestion re: "St Pierre is just plain awesome (although I'm worried that he has gotten too big, if he's on 'roids I will be so disappointed)". Let me assure you, he does NOT take any shots or supplements containing any steroids. He is very much a puritin in the sport of Martial Arts. He wishes to be and really is, an excellent roll model for many young people (if no where else, certainly here in Canada). I trust this is the case for "most" fighters who compete in MMA/UFC, although I know there are those that do injest questionable product ingrediants .. but that too is another story. BTW- I know that No Implications or Accusation were meant by chrisandyasemin's statement. But I'd hate for anyone else to misinterpret that statement.

Anyway, I just had to get my own 5 cents in here (which is only 2 cents in Canadian currency after conversion) specifically because I have watched and participated (to a slight degree) in MMA from its inception, to now when this sport and the overall industry have finally taken off. I love this sport and watch no others.

So this like many things is one of those areas where truly democratic people must keep in mind, that while maybe this sport (or whatever activity) may not be for them, or for everyone, that is no reason to condemn it such that no one can enjoy it. But I think it is also safe to say that from that which I have read so far in EveningStar's blogs, I trust that she at least shares  this last sentiment.

Sincerely .. your's truly .. SnowTiger / SnowTiger61

!!! HEAR ME ROAR !!!

by SnowTiger on 10/11/2008 10:14:35 PM EST

I am the hugest fan of Rush (none / 0)
(haha not Limbaugh!)

Chris and I started really getting into UFC around when he started getting big right after Matt Hughes beat him and since then we're been rooting for him (cause Matt is such a douche).

So he is by far one of my faves (him and Anderson Silva) so I have been worried about his size, so yes it was just speculation (don't wanna start a rumor!) but I just mentioned that to say how disappointed I would be if was juicing because I respect him and his work ethic so much. I think he is an excellent athlete and seeing you are from Canada I will take your word for it and rest assured he is clean:) so I can continue to admire him!

Y

by chrisandyasemin on 10/11/2008 10:29:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Speaking of Rush (none / 0)
I actually met him when I was in the Dominican Republic for my brother's wedding. He was there recuperating after he lost the fight to Hughes. He's really not that big in person, he blended in with everyone other than the fact that he was one of the hottest looking men at the resort! I normally don't get star struck but it was our last night there and he walked by, I literally jumped out of my seat to talk to him...lol..he was very nice and chatted with us for a few minutes after he got over the initial shock some crazy Asian chick almost tackled him!


by MintieFresh on 10/27/2008 03:36:13 AM EST

[ Parent ]
OMG! (none / 0)
LUCKY!!!!!!!!
I can't tell you how envious I am of you!


Y

by chrisandyasemin on 10/27/2008 08:35:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Good Point MintyFresh (none / 0)

I'd like to add that MintyFresh has an excellent and refreshing point regarding this sport. I feel it is especially important coming from a lady (when women are generally, if not stereotypically considered to be against all forms of violence whether in sports or not). I hope this last sentence doesn't get me in trouble because No Insult to Women Is Intended .... on the contrary.

The point MintyFresh makes that is so important to note, is the point which she makes regarding Kimbo Slice which may appear to be in direct contrast to the suggestion(s) I made re: Only top notch fighters ever participate in MMA (paraphrased).

In Kimbo's most recent fight, few would ever guess that he has any MMA skills. But then that is why the sport is generally referred to as MMA/Mixed Martial Arts and part of what makes it so exciting. There are no specific fighting art prerequisites. If you think your "Monkey Kung Fu" or "Streetfighting" style and experience is sufficient to have a "puncher's chance" at winning in the Octagon (for example), then providing you meet the Legislated and Certified Training and Health requirements, you are permitted to fight. No specific judgements are made based solely on the particular martial/fighting art and/or style that you bring to the ring.

But really, I am so happy I didn't pay to watch that particular event because even I would have been truly disappointed.

 

by SnowTiger on 10/11/2008 10:34:00 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Elite XC = NOT MMA (none / 0)
Kimbo slice just proved that Elite XC was one big circus show.  I mean, I knew before when he fought Stank Abbott, but this just shows that Elite XC will kick the bucket within the next three years, because they're going for the "WWF Circus Sideshow" act.  They want name recognition, and they don't care at all about technical skills.  We definitely weren't trying to imply that Rush was on Roids, but just showing that we've been watching the sport for a while, and GSP has gotten HUGE and stayed at the same weight class.  He was always strong, but his body has gotten bigger or something, and we didn't think GSP would be on roids, that's why we put it in the realm of the possible but unlikely.  I think once GSP fights silva, it will settle who is the best pound for pound fighter in the world, but either way, GSP will be ranked in the top 5 as long as he's fighting.  I mean ALL weight classes too.  We don't really buy the UFC pay per view live any more because they cut most of the pre-lims, so watching them after the fact is often better because you get to see more fights than you get for the $40.

Just my $.002(extra 0 for inflation)

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 10/11/2008 11:35:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I Hear Ya (none / 0)

I'd like to reiterate that it was apparent to me that you were not implying that St. Pierre is/was using "Roids" (steroids not hemorrhoids). But it would be an easy conclusion for many to come to considering as you say, how much he has bulked-out in the last 2 years. But consider too that he is a young man in his prime. He is probably at his most fit state that he'll have to work hard at to maintain, especially by the time he hits 30 years old, when gravity starts taking over for many people. None the less, I trust he's got the right genetics and the willpower to do it.

BTW- I was watching an interview on one of the "other" MMA networks (that broadcasts on CBS I believe). One of the Owners (who's name I have forgotten, but who was once a popular MMA fighter himself), suggested that without a particular contract, he estimated the life of their organization to be another 6 months. One of the promotions he was involved in (and I think also relying on) was of the "Huntington Beach Bad Boy" Tito Ortise.

Anyway, good blog/thread. Interesting topic.

I hope I didn't piss anyone off too much, especially EveningStar, who's opinions I highly admire. I just don't agree with her opinions regarding this particular topic.

So, "Lets Get Ready to Rumble"

by SnowTiger on 10/12/2008 10:33:06 AM EST

tito (none / 0)
Interesting, I th ought Tito has retired?

y

by chrisandyasemin on 10/12/2008 01:07:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
MMA REPOST: BECAUSE CENK KEEPS BUTCHERING | 53 comments (53 topical, 0 hidden)
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