11/22/2008 12:29:43 AM EST

David Sanger says you fools were duped

posted by ginger baker

And he's right!

See "Obama tilts to the center..." in the NY Times

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Change" was bs! all you "progressive" posers, just look at the incoming...Rahm, Hillary, Bill, Lieberman, Rob Rubin, Summers, Podesta, and a bunch of foreign poicy hawks. Yeah, i also see Jonathan Alter coming up the rear. Its a restoration of the Clinton era....

Obama's victory will have more to do with feel-good enthusiasm, a mere re-branding of the American Dream, rather than with anything substantial, and that is why Obama is the mythological candidate par excellence.

Open your eyes, he is a surrogate for, what Adolph Reed called, “the ‘progressive’ wing of the investor class.”  Obama voted for the re-authorization of the Patriot Act, he has flip-flopped on public financing, said he wants to expand the military budget, voted for the bailout swindle, been silent on poverty, a living wage, and the impeachment of Bush & Co.


 

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David Sanger says you fools were duped | 15 comments (15 topical, 0 hidden)
The Sanger article being referred to is this: (none / 0)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008 /11/22/us/politics/22assess .html

It contains such passages as:

"The choices are as revealing of the new president as they are of his appointees — and suggest that, from its first days, an Obama White House will brim with big personalities and far more spirited debate than occurred among the largely like-minded advisers who populated President Bush’s first term."

Quite an indictment of Obama's new team.

by jutewe on 11/22/2008 01:58:16 AM EST

Hmmm, that link can't be accessed (none / 0)
without a NY Times subscription. However, if you go here and click on the first search result, you get to the page you won't directly be able to access. Bizarre.

by jutewe on 11/22/2008 02:02:13 AM EST

[ Parent ]
ha! typical denial (none / 1)
from a progressive point of view, it is not "change"...it is the restoration of the clinton adminiustration....precisel y what obama ran againt in the primaries!

by ginger baker on 11/22/2008 12:23:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
More spin (none / 0)
It is fun to see all the whiners who lost.

Change does not mean make everything new and make sure we have never seen any of it before,

Change means Change, basically it is 'not Bush' policy and direction.
There was a lot of things that worked better under Clinton and changing things back to when they worked better is change.
Don't let the repubs hijack the term "change" the way they hijack religion and just about everything else they touch.

by Maverick on 11/22/2008 03:26:08 AM EST

Come on, Mavrick (none / 0)

"Change means not bush." Not buying it. What's the use of parsing words so carefully. If that was all Obama's election meant, we could have voted for anyone.

However, I'm not believing it either. Obama has promised a lot more: healthcare, end Iraq war, close Gitmo, no more torture, restore a little equity to tax system (middle class cuts and upper class increases), etc.

I'm not happy with the direction he seems to be going either, mostly. I'd like to see him be far more liberal but his biographies already acknowledged that he was centerist. Could a real lefty like Kucinich seemed to be get elected? Obama also wanted to win.

As for the specific direction his administration will take, we'll have some say via blogging and writing letters. Of course, that's cold comfort and a microscopic factor, for sure.

by toosinbeymen on 11/22/2008 06:41:15 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Voted for Anybody? (none / 0)

No, the Republicans running for President would not have been change.  Not McBush/Palin.  Not MittBush, not Rudybush, not any of the top Republican contenders.  They would have been 4 more years of the same.

But there were several Democratic contenders who would have represented real change in Washington - just Obama was the best qualified and most competent out of a field of talent.  With the possible exception of Gre, Obama is the best qualified candidate for President in our lifetime.  Certainly, Hillary would have given the Presidency a woman's touch.  And Edwards would have been a champion for the less fortunate.  Biden would have brought foreign policy muscle to the Presidency and Richardson would have brought an even hand and Spanish sensibility.

Let's look at your list.

healthcare - Can you think of a better person than Tom Daschle to muscle in changes to the healthcare system?  Have you read his book?

Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis

end Iraq War - how much influence do you think Obama's election had to do with this?

Iraq Cabinet OKs U.S. troop pullout plan

close Gitmo - in case you haven't noticed, Eric Holder is Obama's choice for Attorney General:

Top Obama adviser: Close Gitmo now

no more torture - here is a quote from Holder from the article above:

In the months and years since 9/11, the Bush administration took many steps that were excessive and unlawful," Holder continued. "We authorized torture and we let fear take precedence over the rule of law, as we overreacted to perceived danger."

In addition to closing Gitmo, Holder insisted the next president should:

Declare without qualification a policy that the United States will not torture political detainees, engage in forced interrogations or submit people to degrading treatment in prison;
End all programs, covert or otherwise, to transfer detainees to nations that practice torture;
Stop domestic search and seizures without warrant and end wiretapping of citizens.

restore equity in tax system - In case you missed it, the Wall Street Journal had an article last night about how Timothy Geithner and Lawrence Summers will work together on tax policy.  Summers is the source of Obama's "spread the wealth" comment, and he literally wrote (or at least compiled and edited) the book on progressive taxation:

Tax Policy and the Economy, Vol. 4

You say that you're not happy with the direction he seems to be going, but Obama is taking the strongest action possible on every single issue that you raise.  Specifically, on these issues, how can your concerns be better addressed?

by rbruck on 11/22/2008 10:23:38 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Sorry, I left out a Link (none / 0)

Here is the link from the Wall Atreet Journal article about how Summers will interject White House policy into the Treasury:

White House to have policy role with Geithner pick

by rbruck on 11/22/2008 10:32:09 AM EST

[ Parent ]
More progressive than France and Sweden (none / 0)
...restore a little equity to tax system...

Obama has been very successful in bolstering the conventional wisdom that the U.S. tax system does not place a significant enough burden on wealthier households and places too much of a burden on the "middle class."

But a new study on inequality by researchers at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) in Paris reveals that when it comes to household taxes (income taxes and employee social security contributions) the U.S. "has the most progressive tax system and collects the largest share of taxes from the richest 10% of the population." As Column 1 in the table below shows, the U.S. tax system is far more progressive--meaning pro-poor--than similar systems in countries most Americans identify with high taxes, such as France and Sweden.

by Twba on 11/22/2008 04:34:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yeah, right, whatever (none / 0)
If being a dupe means we dump the Republican hacks and loyalists and opportunists that have been running the government and we don't end up with Sarah Palin as vice president then count me in.  I'm a dupe all day long every day of the week.

by bfaul on 11/22/2008 10:27:32 AM EST

you said it! (none / 0)
A LEFT-RIGHT NATION BEING GOVERNED BY A CENTER-RIGHT STATE. KEE P MAKING EXCUSES, KEEP "HOPING" FOOLS.

by ginger baker on 11/22/2008 12:26:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
What's your problem? (none / 0)

Bfaul is correct. Most people who voted for Obama just knew that we could not afford another 4 years of Neo Con control.

I don't think most people who voted for him have huge expectations of what he will accomplish. Especially considering the huge mess Obama is inheriting. 

by z1p101 on 11/22/2008 01:05:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Center right? (none / 0)
where you been the last 2 elections?

Republicans portray the government as the enemy. Then when they take over, they prove it.

by Chinese Democracy on 11/22/2008 01:19:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sore Losers are funny (none / 0)
.

"The eyelid is a joke"

by richardshort2001 on 11/22/2008 10:49:19 AM EST

hmm (none / 1)

Based on your other posts, you were an Obama supporter, right? But maybe you had expectations of him being a left-wing progressive that weren't based on a sound understanding of him and his politics. I think a majority of Americans voted for Obama because he is a moderate; I don't think they were voting for a left-wing progressive.

But this morning I pulled out his book "The Audacity of Hope" in order to remind myself of his intentions in politics. Based on what he says in the book, and all I have heard from him since, his choices are completely logical. If we continue down a ultra-partisan path, we won't get anywhere. We need to proceed slowly and carefully so that the American people buy into the changes. The book is available in any bookstore in a cheap paperback form. I suggest progressives read it to understand what to expect from Obama.

Of course we may not agree with all of his appointments, but I imagine there is an incredible amount of discussion and thought and strategizing going on for each one. I don't pretend to think that, just because I am interested in politics and enthusiastic about an Obama presidency, I am privy to all the information that they have. And since I can't do much about it, and he hasn't even taken office, I am willing to wait and trust for now, and rejoice that we have an intellectual in the White House; someone who believes in science, transparency, and dialog with the American people who elected him.

by desertpear on 11/22/2008 02:03:10 PM EST

It is a bit Premature to Speculate (none / 1)

It is comical to hear people whining about Obama already considering he is not yet in power and barely in a position of influence.

The repub's still have the better part of 2 months to fuck your country and others up some more.

If Bush gave an ounce of a damn for anything but himself, his family and his closest and most financially supportive friends, he'd step aside immediately to permit Obama to get to work in an unprecedented fashion.

However, for now, Obama is still picking his team. Regardless who he chooses for each position, I trust that he will be doing it after giving each person considerable consideration for their experience and abilities. Most specifically, I trust that he is choosing those that will "Tow Obama's Pary Line". I can't see him choosing anybody that doesn't first agree to do exactly what he tells them to do.

The democrats would not be in power (or soon to be) if it weren't for Obama's campaign. The "people" have spoken for what they want to happen. They prefer Obama's policies (promises) over those of anyone else and therefore, I trust that his choice of staff/team members, will be those he can count on to ensure his promises are kept and with minimal hesitation.

I don't think it is fair to make ANY judgments on Obama until he has had a fair opportunity to start working unhindered by the present ruling party/government. Furthermore, everyone MUST honestly consider the Grotesque Mess that Bush has left everone in .. and how that may likely affect Obama's ability to succeed over any short period of time.

I too have some skepticism of  Obama's choices and policies, but I reserve my right to criticise later and in the meantime, I'll give him time to show us his wares, especially given the current situation (s) throughout this world.

So .... Quite for friggin' whining, tuck yer tails between yer legs, and step asside while truly hard working and hopefully honest people attempt to save whatever is left of your country that can be saved.

by SnowTiger on 11/22/2008 02:18:41 PM EST

David Sanger says you fools were duped | 15 comments (15 topical, 0 hidden)
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