Walk a mile in my shoes

Really, just an open letter to Cenk. First, to establish my bona fides, I took the Civics quiz mentioned on today's show (11/24/08) before I listened to the podcast. I got 91% (30 out of 33). Actually better: I am sure I picked the correct answer for one of them. If not, my user error deserves to be marked wrong, so I'll accept my grade of A-.

As for the topic of education, I have almost as many years in school as Ana has on Earth. Additionally, I have worked as a mechanical engineer, photojournalist, graphic designer, in construction, retail sales, I taught English in Asia, and a did couple other things I can't recall right now.

I am now a seventh grade science teacher. Whenever I mention I work in a middle school, the first reaction is: "I could never do that!" And almost always, I agree with the speaker.

It's a tough job. High stress from all directions: the bureaucracy above, incompetent colleagues, the parents, and, least of all, the students (150 of them which I deal with on a daily basis).

Hey, I get your schtick, Cenk. I work with 12 year olds and understand your sense of humor completely (this is not a dis by any means, trust me.) But it wears a bit thin when you jump to conclusions about how teachers/schools deal with students. As a daily live show it is part of your job to make quick judgements about events. When assuming that republicans are corrupt, it is an easy call. But let's have a little more caution when playing Monday morning quarterback on educational issues.

The specific instance today: arresting a kid for farting in class. Yes, it was an Ana story with little background, but you went for it hook and line. After Ana mentioned that the kid had done other disruptive acts, you pulled back from the sinker and recognized that we were not hearing the whole story.

And yet you ended by saying that we need to let kids be kids. Have you ever read "Lord of the Flies"? It is not a fantasy novel. Let kids run loose and chaos follows. Now, I like and respect kids. I don't have any of my own, which is probably why I still like them. But kids as well as adults need structure and rules. This knee-jerk reaction that boys will be boys is shortsighted at best.

My philosophy is to set the boundaries such that when students cross them, there is no real harm, and you can still bring them back into the fold. In this particular case of the 12 year old passing gas, I assume (but do not know) that this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Or more likely knowing the media, it happened a while ago and they just chose this for the headline value to catch Ana's attention.

If this were an isolated incident on your part, I'd be my usual lazy self and let it go. But I'm reminded of previous examples such as when you absolve kids of various fashion statements -- such as wearing their pants down on their ass. What's the big deal? We don't need preteens walking around our schools looking like aspiring gang-banging pimps and whores.

To be clear, I'm no cultural conservative. I've been a dirty f-ing hippee lib much longer than you (though I'm just a few years older). I hated Reagan and would have voted for Carter or Mondale if I had been old enough. Bush the First? Better than I expected, but no regrets in voting for Dukakis. And on it went.

So, to wrap it up, I challenge you to spend some time substituting in a local school. The garbage teachers must deal with on a daily basis -- while trying to ensure your social security benefits by educating the youth of America -- is overwhelming. Give us a break on the front lines and occasionally assume that the student deserved what he got if you do not have evidence to the contrary.

 

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I would assume that that 12-year-old's school, like any other, would consider calling in the police a last resort.  One would hope that serious conferences and deals (with rewards) with the child had been tried, then parents (who, of course, may be totally unhelpful).  Then social worker, then psychologist.  Maybe involving moving to another class or another school.  There should be many other "resorts" before the last resort for a chronic disrupter.  Thus I'd blame the school and the school district for not having the necessary remedies at hand.

(I work with younger kids, but we have chronic disrupters, too.)

by Arna on 11/25/2008 09:38:37 AM EST

So...how many 12-year-olds have you arrested, Officer Teacher Sir?

by OneHitKill on 11/25/2008 11:43:54 AM EST

Actually, there was only one time in which I let the cop take over a situation (as opposed to the dean or vice principal, etc.). This case involved an adult. He was a co-worker of sorts, working with building and grounds.

I called out to him asking for his ID, and he took umbrage. When the officer sidled up, I turned to him and shrugged as if, "You explain it," and walked away.

Yes, I'm kind of a nazi at school.

Full story though: I was supervising 350 12-13 yr olds at lunch when he walked into the building through a side door (using a key I assumed; all doors are locked).

A little later a kid comes up and says, "There's a man in the bathroom." The students use a pair of bathrooms down the hall from the cafeteria. As I approached the bathrooms, he emerged and headed for the exit.

I called out. After all, when a boy comes up and says that to me, I gotta check it out. All employees are required to display their IDs on district property, but he had his in his pocket. Hey, if I've got to where this stupid thing, so should everybody.

What lately annoys most, though: a couple of weeks ago they cut down all the foliage around all of the doors. The reason for this de-bushification? Security.

by foleygraphics on 11/25/2008 10:06:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I didn't get the impression he was against disciplining the kid, I think he just thought arresting a kid for farting sounded kind of ridiculous.  There is something kind of off about that, isn't there?

Maybe a good question to discuss would be why it has become necessary for the police to handle ordinary school discipline cases.  Answer that question and we're getting somewhere near the heart of the problem.  That seems to be a widespread issue.  I know it is happening more and more where I live. 

by bfaul on 11/25/2008 05:13:13 PM EST

Any nearer the heart and we would be past it. Why law enforcement is so involved in school culture is a good question. This involvement of course varies by location. I work in the second largest district in my state, and we have at least one liaison officer in each school. The problem is not that we have such officers; it's that we need them.

Of course, this is public school. We have to take on all comers. The really difficult school problems are really community problems. So here I would amend your statement.

Discipline cases that require police involvement may be common, but they are not ordinary school issues. It may be ordinary for police in the neighborhoods surrounding the school to often interact with school aged children in the course of their day. That does not make such counterproductive activity the problem of the school alone just because it's presently occurring there.

That said, cut my class size in half and I could handle almost anything. I'd suggest working toward that goal. Obviously it increases overhead, but just turn education into a national security issue and get DoD funds. Problem solved.

by foleygraphics on 11/25/2008 09:46:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
We've already had this discussion. Teachers should be allowed to kick ass.

by KenTX on 11/26/2008 12:30:18 AM EST

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