11/07/2008 12:33:32 AM EST

Ralph Nader asks if Barack Obama will be an "Uncle Tom"

posted by omardini

Ralph Nader just lost all my respect, watch

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 http://www.youtube.com/watc h?v=ibsP6XN2dIo

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Ralph Nader asks if Barack Obama will be an "Uncle Tom" | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 hidden)
Ralph Nadar is a disgusting joke (none / 0)


by Chinese Democracy on 11/07/2008 02:11:41 AM EST

What is it with fringe candidates? (none / 0)
is it required that you are a racist to get an extraordinarily small percentage of the vote in a Presidential race?

by richardshort2001 on 11/07/2008 02:18:17 AM EST

I saw this too (none / 0)
and was totally turned off by Nader's attitude.  I've lost respect for him too.  He was such a jerk in this interview!

by desertpear on 11/07/2008 02:25:39 AM EST

My take (none / 0)

Hopefully this will spell the end to Nader's quixotic quest for the presidency.

Pathetic, to say the least. Progressives have no business supporting him. 

by charlesf on 11/07/2008 06:39:36 AM EST

Holy sheepshit (none / 0)
Okay, yeah, there is the coffin, there is the nail.  Hammer away, jackass!

SAM: What's new, Normie?
NORM: Terrorists, Sam. They've taken over my stomach and they're demanding beer.

by Spinny on 11/07/2008 07:08:30 AM EST

new link (none / 0)
By the way, the link above is dead.  Here's another:

YouTube: FOX "Uncle Tom" interview with Nader

SAM: What's new, Normie?
NORM: Terrorists, Sam. They've taken over my stomach and they're demanding beer.

by Spinny on 11/07/2008 07:09:41 AM EST

[ Parent ]
On further reflection... (none / 0)
Okay, I'm going to start by saying I do not support or endorse Nader's remarks.  I think they were foot-in-mouth on steroids.  But I make a habit of reflecting dispassionately on things when I can.

Given what Nader was trying to communicate, he nailed it. "Uncle Tom" is exactly the relationship with the military-industrial complex he was trying to convey; it's a perfect analogy. But no one is going to hear the message because of the baggage, and the unique fact that Obama had to be black for the analogy to be such a good fit. The FOX talking head's reaction is exactly what (I expect) 99% of people hearing it are going to take away from it: a racist comment, not a brilliant parsing of words. I think Nader is a very intelligent communicator, but also somewhat naive when he gets out of his experience zone.

And I still think he's a jackass.

SAM: What's new, Normie?
NORM: Terrorists, Sam. They've taken over my stomach and they're demanding beer.

by Spinny on 11/07/2008 07:33:56 AM EST

You have a good point (none / 0)
except for the fact that ralph had to go and completely fuck it up by throwing in an incorrect analogy.  A black can call a black an uncle tom, but a white would call that same person a "house nigger".  The difference is, an uncle tom to a black person has betrayed that black person, so to him he is an uncle tom, but to the white person, there has been no betrayal, just submissiveness, so to that white person the same acts would be labeled house nigger.  The point is, to use the term "uncle tom as a non-black shows a severe misunderstanding of the usage.  An uncle-tom/house nigger is a self serving opportunist who uses the plight of one group to get ahead socially with another group who will not accept him.  

now, if you want to make that case about the military industrial complex, you won't get any arguments here, but for Nader to say it in that manner shows that his communication skills are breaking down, or he is not as eloquent as he once was.  If it were Eugene Robinson calling him an uncle tom, it would be different, not because it's wrong for non-blacks to use the term uncle tom, but eugene is ACTUALLY in a position where Barack could be an uncle tom to him.  Barack could never be an uncle tom to anyone but black america, so black america is technically the group who should decide when barack is "tomming".  You can't redefine uncle tom into a context where non-blacks are using the term because then it loses it's frame of reference, and becomes a convoluted metaphor.  Obviously i'm not saying white people can't use the word, but to try to make a serious argument based on that will only alienate NADER from blacks, and what good is this if he calls himself trying to DEFEND us?

I'm not trying to disprove you by any means, I'm simply trying to offer a perspective as to why it was stupid for him to say that, and why your wording was 1000% better than Nader's.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 11/07/2008 09:47:18 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Well said (none / 0)
I completely missed the nuance that it's a term used by "insiders" to denote betrayal.  I submit the meanings of the original novel have become almost memes of their own, somewhat distorted by the minstral-ized versions that saw stage play, but such a basic point should transcend that.

I've gained an image of Nader as well-intentioned but naive, based on some of the things I've heard him propose in past interviews.  Sure, they sound spiffy and populist on the surface, but don't scale to a national level (everything being done by national referendum?  Please).  I think he honestly expected his comment to be seen as a well-meant poke in the ribs--a challenge to take his agenda into consideration, with no clue about the baggage that would overwhelm it.

His ship has surely sailed.

SAM: What's new, Normie?
NORM: Terrorists, Sam. They've taken over my stomach and they're demanding beer.

by Spinny on 11/07/2008 09:54:51 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Fuck ralph Nader's senile old ass (none / 0)
I lost respect for him after he wouldn't stop running during historical elections.  He is a self serving prick who couldn't lead a party if it was a kegger and he had snoop dogg playing a show.  ralph nader is a fucking arab-american, so i don't want to hear about a fucking uncle tom.  If anything, he's the fucking uncle ali, turning his back on his arabic brethren, and not even wearing it on his sleeve, because if he did, he knows he would get shot by some redneck who still uses osama bin laden posters as target practice.

fucking prick

chris

by chrisandyasemin on 11/07/2008 08:42:28 AM EST

C'mon Chris (none / 0)
tell us how you really feel!  ;)

by desertpear on 11/07/2008 11:37:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
that was abbreviated (none / 0)
i usually don't include the whole tangent, because I'm not as cruel/smart as Dennis miller, although he doesn't have to be such an arrogant prick about his intelligence.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 11/07/2008 11:45:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I like a good rant (none / 0)

by desertpear on 11/08/2008 12:18:17 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Ralph Nader, the left's Ron Paul. (none / 0)
Except Rep. Paul actually does have some good ideas. Nader is all about himself. He and David Horowitz should've stuck to consumer advocacy.

by LudwigVan on 11/07/2008 01:24:16 PM EST

Hey (none / 0)
we freakin love seatbelts.

by richardshort2001 on 11/07/2008 01:28:18 PM EST

[ Parent ]
be careful (none / 0)
someone might call you sexist for calling that whore a bitch...

chris

by chrisandyasemin on 11/07/2008 01:42:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Is that better (none / 0)
I added a winky face, that makes it ok, right?

by richardshort2001 on 11/07/2008 11:20:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
for a good comparison (none / 0)
I think the "tanned Obama" joke by the italian prime minister wasn't funny, but it wasn't the slightest bit offensive.  Black people make tanning jokes all the time, and white people are afraid to, but they could if they really wanted to.  I don't believe the phrase "he's even tanned" was in the slightest bit offensive, because it wasn't trying to take the plight of black americans and make it his own, where as Nader was.  There is a HUGE difference, and I don't even think Nader is as much racist as much as he just had verbal diarrhea.  The Italian PM gets a pass, Nader doesn't!

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 11/07/2008 05:29:08 PM EST

This comment didn't offend me (none / 0)

because I knew that it would hurt Nader more than anyone else. It was a dumb political move and I take that for what it is. He thought that the wording was clever but it just just offensive and politically careless.

I think that the question was good. "Is Obama going to sell out?" It a question worth asking, but saying "Uncle Tom" the night when the first African American president was being elected... that was just another blow to his message.

by evaangellus on 11/07/2008 07:45:55 PM EST

Ralph Nader asks if Barack Obama will be an "Uncle Tom" | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 hidden)
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