11/07/2008 09:22:17 AM EST

Anything -- well almost anything -- is now possible

posted by Dond

This election put to rest the notion that neither an African-America nor a woman could make a serious run  for the presidency. Now let's move on to the real question: Will an openly gay man or woman ever get the nomination of a major party?

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We're still at the stage where the sexual orientation of Rachel Maddow or Ellen Degeneres or Anderson Cooper is as much a part of how the public appraises their performance as their obvious professional abilities. And they're just people on television.

So how many decades will elapse before we see a credible gay presidential candidate? I'm thinking not in my lifetime. Maybe my daughter will see it, but probably not.

< Being smart is the new cool | How are the mighty fallen >
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Anything -- well almost anything -- is now possible | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden)
Why are Liberals... (none / 0)
obsessed with labels? African American, latino Hispanic American, Gay, Lesbian, Transgender American etc?

Why cant we just have American Presidents, regardless of their race gender, religion or sexual orientation?

And for your information, we have already had a gay man in the white house - James Buchanan, 15th president (the one before Lincoln) was as openly gay as he could be in the 19th century - he lived with his lover, William Rufus King (a former Vice President) for years, openly...

Get over yourself - Just let people be who they are!

;)

by bobo1 on 11/07/2008 11:24:41 AM EST

Excuse me -- why are you so angry at me? (none / 0)
It was a simple observation, and thanks for the insight into Buchanan. I was commenting on the fact that, regardless of how good we are feeling about ourselves for electing Barack Obama, despite -- or with little or no reference to -- his racial heritage, there is still plenty of bias out there in the electorate.

As for getting over myself, I'm mystified by your anger. Just letting "people be who they are" is a fine sentiment, as long as you ignore the fact that many, many people still face hatred, fear, and discrimination because they choose to be "who they are."

I suggest you exercise a little impulse control -- or at the very least, actually read and take in what someone writes before you lash out.

by Dond on 11/07/2008 12:02:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Bobo's Anger (none / 0)
Bobo's always angry. Thanks for calling him on it.

by Verified1 on 11/07/2008 01:47:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Im not angry... (none / 0)
I am frustrated that Liberals always work under this double standard when it comes to the "Two Americas" argument - they simply cannot have it all ways all the time - thats not how the real world works!

You cant go around telling us that everyone is the same and should be treated equally, and then turn around and label people and treat them special because they are "different"!!!


:)

by bobo1 on 11/07/2008 03:39:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Why? (none / 0)
Labels make communicating easier.  There's nothing racist/hypocritical about them.  What you're saying is essentially that I can't like chocolate and vanilla equally, without just calling them both "ice cream".

by Spencer on 11/07/2008 04:23:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Wrong... (none / 0)
Labeling Balkanizes people and seperates them not only in communicative ways, but also in assumption and action -

Its OK to like both Chocolate and Vanilla, but dont tell me that one isnt better than the other - dont tell me not to have an opinion about either one and still consider them the same...

BTW - your analogy is off - nobody here is clamoring for equality of Ice Cream flavors - yeah they are different, but they arent competing for money and public policy attention like special interest groups do...

:)

by bobo1 on 11/07/2008 04:38:39 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I don't see it as a competition. (none / 0)

"but dont tell me that one isnt better than the other - dont tell me not to have an opinion about either one and still consider them the same"

You're looking for permission to be racist (surprising).  Outside of my analogy and back to the actual issue, in your estimation, which race is "better"?  Are you mad that the labels divide people, or mad that you aren't allowed to classify people based on them?  I don't really understand your gripe here. 

Shocking!  You're pissed about something that's almost completely meaningless.

by Spencer on 11/07/2008 04:51:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Also (none / 0)
how does a label like "black" or "gay" spur an assumption?

by Spencer on 11/07/2008 05:00:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
it does... (none / 0)
if you happen to be a homophobic racist.

by richardshort2001 on 11/07/2008 11:16:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
And one more thing... (none / 0)

If anyone actually believes bobo's bullshit about words dividing people and how much it pisses him off, I'll let his own words show how much of a uniter he really is:

"When are you guys gonna get it through your head that some people of my creed and color simply dont like the idea of having a Black guy as President?"

"people are simply more comfortable being around and being led by 'their own'"

Someone who sounds like a segregationist is really going to give a lecture about how labels only serve to divide people?  Please...

by Spencer on 11/07/2008 05:34:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Whoops (none / 0)
Wrong link on that first one.

by Spencer on 11/07/2008 05:35:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Dond hes not angry at just you (none / 0)
He is a right wing troll that is pissed off that the conservative ideals where soundly rejected. The republican party was pretty much wiped out.

Its a new day  and bobotx doesnt like it.


by Chinese Democracy on 11/07/2008 07:24:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Labels (none / 0)
You appear to have moved beyond labels, but you carelessly include me among "liberals" who are still obsessed with labels.

You do this not knowing what my political orientation is, how I voted in this election, or what political party I support. And quite frankly, for the purposes of this discussion, it's really none of your fucking business.


The issue here (if you had actually read what I wrote) is not what I think about African-Americans, Latinos, gays, lesbians, or whatever, it's what a lot of otherwise reasonable and decent people think, and how their lingering prejudices are likely to influence their voting behavior when confronted with a choice between an openly gay candidate and one who is (presumably) heterosexual.

Do you get that?

by Dond on 11/07/2008 12:10:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
My apologies... (none / 0)
This was not intended to be a "lashing" of you, personally...

I am just getting sick and tired of Liberals who whine about Americans not being united, about an America that is divided and then they turn around and pigeon hole people into particular groups, assigning labels left and right...

Liberals cant have it both ways!!! They cant run around screaming "We're all Americans" and then go around and hypenate people based on their differences!!!

And another thing that irritates me is this - Now that we have elected a Black President, the speculators on the news are now wondering when will we get a Jew or Woman or Gay or whatever else kind of president - What the Hell does it matter what they are??? If they are qualified to do the job, and the people elect them SO BE IT -

Being a minority should not automatically qualify you or give you extra creedence to be President in this country!!!! It just irritates me when Liberals say everyone should be treated equally, while at the same time THEY are the one dividing the nation by race and gender, assigning them differing values and labels...

Yes there are always going to be racists and bigots and homophobes and what not - They have always existed and will always exist - They got thier just desserts a couple of days ago, but they will come back in full force politically if the Liberals continue to play the politics of "Im better than you because I have a different label" -

The pendulum swings both ways....

:)

by bobo1 on 11/07/2008 12:34:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Hmmm (none / 0)
I love how you end your statement with "The pendulum swings both ways...." while previously, one again, slamming "liberals" for "dividing the nation." 

Your logic, once again, is laughable.  It was the "liberals" of this country that eliminated the N-Word label.  It was the "liberals" of this country that eliminated the "woman belongs in the kitchen" label.  It was the "liberals" of this country that strengthened the label that "all men are createded equal." 

Don't be so cowardice as to think that "liberals" are the ones creating these labels, when clearly it is the "conservative" side of the country spewing the hate filled vitriol that coincides with the "labeling of Americans."

You are right, the pendulum DOES swing BOTH ways.  It just happens to swing a little more conservative when it comes to "labels."

Palin 2012!

Click Here: The Progressive Movement

by redwingsm on 11/07/2008 12:41:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You're still missing the point (none / 0)
I don't want to belabor this, even though that's what I'm about to do. The issue is not whether liberals over-rely on labels. It's simply that we need to take a break from congratulating ourselves long enough to recall that there's still some bad acid circulating in this wonderful, post-Woodstock, post-racial, post-Boomer society. I wish it were otherwise, but it's simply not. Do what you can to take labels like gay, straight, Latino, whatever out of the political equation, and so will I. I wish us both success.

by Dond on 11/07/2008 12:47:26 PM EST

[ Parent ]
BoboTX (none / 0)
you are projecting

Either you are really ignorant or playing stupid if you are trying to say the conservatives game wasnt to try to turn people against each other using  homophobia.. race.. fear..

guess what  it didnt work this time
its never going to work again
'

Would you like a seat on the plane to Plasticifca with KenTx?


by Chinese Democracy on 11/07/2008 07:28:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Dond (none / 0)
Don't let bobo bother you.  His use of the word "liberal" is about as LABELING as you can get.  Especially since his party has demonized the word for many years.  I found it interesting that only 23% of the voting electorate claimed themselves to be "liberals."    This is because of the demonization of that particular label by the Republican party.

Also, bobo is upset that he lost.  His need to cry like a baby totally outweighs logic of conversation.   He has put forth PLENTY of labels throughout this campaign.  I believe the cliche' is, "The pot calling the kettle black."

Bobo we love you bro, despite your ignorance of the facts.

Click Here: The Progressive Movement

by redwingsm on 11/07/2008 12:36:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]
for what it's worth (none / 0)

I read the results from a survey done in the past year (or last year) in which people were asked if they would vote for a gay or an atheist for president.  People overwhelmingly chose the gay person.  Which tells you how well atheists are marginalized in this country in favor of people that believe in some sort of sky-god who takes a personal interest in people's sex lives.  Wish I had the link, but with some searching you may be able to find it.

I appreciate the fact that Obama is the first African-American to attain the presidency, but even more, I appreciate the fact that he was a self-made man, who didn't have a rich man or a general as a daddy, or a father who was president.

I don't really care about the presidency, but I know what you mean.  We talk alot about inclusiveness in this country, but there are a lot of people who have no tolerance for those that are outside the evangelical Christianity model.  They are weird people, outside of my own personal experience of Catholicism growing up, which I see as largely socially liberal apart from the abortion issue.

by desertpear on 11/07/2008 01:00:10 PM EST

Survey (none / 0)
That's very interesting. I will try to find the survey online.

by Dond on 11/07/2008 01:12:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Here is the poll (none / 0)
You might have to scroll down some to find it, but its there.

by ProfRich on 11/08/2008 01:38:03 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Forgot the link (none / 0)
Here it is

by ProfRich on 11/08/2008 01:38:49 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Thanks! (none / 0)
I never even saw the raw data--just the summary.  Fascinating stuff.  I wonder what would happen if you replaced "atheist" with "scientist"?  There certainly seems to be a great deal of bias against non-religious people among a large segment of the population.  Religious folks often think that atheists and other non-believers have no basis for a moral code of ethics, but that is patently false.  

by desertpear on 11/08/2008 12:29:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Anything -- well almost anything -- is now possible | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden)
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