12/03/2008 11:29:03 AM EST

F%*# Roman Polanski

posted by chrisandyasemin

I just thought I would take the time out to say Fuck Roman Polanski.  He's fucking guilty.  Nobody who's innocent would flee the country.  That pederass.  

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i just wanted to keep it brief, because that's all that I really needed to say about the situation.  If anybody wants to argue this one, you're a sick fuck too.

Chris

< For Atheists during the Holidays | Sean Avery on Sloppy Seconds..some clarifications too >
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F%*# Roman Polanski | 57 comments (57 topical, 0 hidden)
funny post, but (none / 0)
was this in response to something or just a random thought?

by hazmat on 12/03/2008 03:23:25 PM EST

just random (none / 0)
i thought i would throw it out there

by chrisandyasemin on 12/03/2008 05:34:57 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Viva Polanski (none / 0)
The great artist who made "Repulsion" and "Chinatown" flies high above your petty bourgeois morals. He is Polanski. Bow to him, little man.

by ashbul on 12/03/2008 05:05:09 PM EST

Sorry Chris but... (none / 0)
That is way to close to people claiming that if you are arrested you must be guilty. A true Con mindset.

If you're on death row you must be guilty, after all a jury heard all the evidence and convicted you. (only 1 person for every 7 executed is found to be innocent after being convicted and sentenced to death.)

Do I think he's guilty? I don't know, but it would appear that he is.

I do know if I felt that I was being set up without the chance of a fair trial and could manage to run I sure as hell would.

I do know that the victim wants the charges dropped (for whatever reason), and that the judge and the prosecutor were nothing but publicity hounds looking for a high profile case to make their names with.

I do know that there is evidence prosecutorial misconduct.

I'm more outraged that a parent allowed a 13 year old to go alone to a home for a "photo shoot" with an adult male without a chaperon.

I would have never even considered allowing my daughter to do something like that, even if the photographer was my best friend.

I say fuck the parents who allowed their daughter to be put at risk like that.

I'm not blaming the victim here, but I am blaming the stupid ass parents for thinking with their checkbooks and not their brains.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

by Hubble on 12/03/2008 05:30:22 PM EST

not really (none / 0)
I am completely of the mindset of innocent until proven guilty, but at the same time, if you are innocent, you don't need to run.  

Now, take your example in addition to Occam's Razor.  Now if most evidence points to him molesting the girl, even if it's not 100%, if there is above %50 chance that he did it, it's more likely that he did it than not, and you can't take those kinds of chances with pederasses.  All offenses are not equal under the law and should not be treated equally.  i share your outrage at the parents, as they are more to blame here than polanski, but at the same time, Polanski should stand trial to be found guilty or not in a court.  Whether the girl wants to drop the charges or not, that doesn't mean she didn't get molested, and her guilt for causing a scene may be what's causing her to want to retract the case.  If she refuses to testify, then going to court will only serve to clear polanski's name.  I think he's dirty for trying to get his charges dropped from overseas.  As an avid weed-smoker, of course I stand for due process, but at the same time, I am not down with people skipping out on sexual assault charges.  This is one area where I don't agree with the statute of limitations.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/03/2008 05:42:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sometimes the innocent do need to run (none / 0)

I don't know if Polanski is innocent or not.  We'll never know.  But while I would want young girls to be chaparroned around him, I'm also not going to condemn him.  I just haven't seen enough corroboration for the accusation, and I would expect there to be more because of what I know about the child molesters I've known.  But I just can't consider the fact that he ran to be evidence of guilt.

The people who were tried in the McMartin case are still suffering the financial consequences of being accused, and everyone knows now that they were innocent.  They might have been better off if they had run, too but they weren't given that chance.

by EveningStarNM on 12/03/2008 05:53:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
financial consequences are not equal (none / 0)
to criminal consequences.  I understand facing a tough trial, but at the same time, I've broken the law and been caught, and DIDN'T run, and I got let go because I was deemed not to be a threat to myself or anyone else(just had some weed).  Now, if there is enough evidence against someone to make them run, either they are guilty, or just have extremely bad luck, and if such cases are dealing with violent crimes, it's less risky to the public to put these people on trial until they are proven innocent.  The dude won't even fucking stand trial!  If there's a case of a prosecutor with a motive to illegally put polanski behind bars, get a new prosecutor, but for the love of buddha, don't let the man go because he escaped trial for 30 years and everyone gave up...that's weak sauce if you ask me.  If there's no evidence, he'll be fine, and the accusations have already been made so it will only CLEAR his name if he goes to trial.  Like I said, if all the evidence points to guilty, you have to call the man guilty.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/03/2008 06:06:42 PM EST

[ Parent ]
The fatal flaw: (none / 0)

"...until they are proven innocent..."

We've already learned through centuries of experience that if people must prove their innocence that many innocent people will be imprisoned or executed.  That's why we've abandoned that practice and now require governments to prove that someone is actually guilty of a crime.  Even so, with politicians appealing to peoples' baser, paranoid, and often most vile fears in order to get re-elected, we see how even our current system can be corrupted.

In addition, there is the problem of the utter impracticality of trying someone after 30 years.  Evidence disappears or gets corrupted with age.  Witnesses -- if they're still alive -- become completely unreliable.  Memories about events and people do become unreliable after such a period of time.  We have statutes of limitation for a reason.

The principle used to be that it was better to let a guilty man go free than to imprison an innocent one.  The damage caused by an unfair judicial system far outweigh any damage cause by letting a few guilty people go free.  History proves that any other system leads to the worst kinds of authoritarianism.

Let it go.  We as a society suffer brutalizing consequences when we worry too much about individual cases like Polanski or any other person who cannot be tried.  While we might look for ways to assure fairness and impartiality while also assuring that accuse people will be tried, we don't have to make a big deal out of the relatively small issues presented in this specific instance.  The right-wing is unjustifiably paranoid already; we shouldn't be feeding their sickness.

Besides, Polanski isn't responsible for anyone's unhappiness today.

by EveningStarNM on 12/03/2008 08:36:34 PM EST

[ Parent ]
maybe not yours or mine (none / 0)
but surely that girl still suffers the consequences of this...although her parents are stupid fucks too, polanski should not just get a pass because time has passed, ESPECIALLY if there were photos involved.  If he goes to trial and there's no admissable evidence, i would be much more satisfied with the justice system than if they just let him be a fugitve forever.  That's why that fucking rapist Andrew Luster went to mexico, because he wanted to end up like polanski.  Guess what, he didn't make it for 30 years so he got prosecuted.  I am a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty, but if accused you must stand trial to prove you're innocent.  There is a due process, and sometimes it stops at the officer, and sometimes it stops with a grand jury.  When the guilty people are violent/sex offenders, I have to disagree that it's worth letting a few guilty ones go.  This is why non-violent crimes that aren't larceny shouldn't carry similar sentences to rape/murder/child molestation.  I'm not losing sleep over this, I just think Polanski should go fuck himself.  I refuse to ever consider possible child molestation a "relatively small issue".  Every murder that adds up in a genocide is an individual, it doesn't make an individual's death any less important because thousands died around him/her. I agree 100% that testimony is unreliable after a long time, but there may be dna evidence, or photographs, in which case would you say let him go anyway?  I think the right is extremely paranoid, but how is wanting to prosecute a pederass paranoid?

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/03/2008 10:36:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
he plead guilty (none / 0)
before he ran, and then his story changed later...

don't keep defending this guy for your own sake

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/03/2008 11:16:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I missed that (none / 0)

He pleaded guilty?  I'm surprised that the judge let him out of the courtroom.  It's strange that his bail would be continued after he pleaded guilty.

As far as the girl is concerned, like all of us, sometimes people choose to give others control over their mental states.  Sure, it might take time to recover from shock, but recovery is possible, and we are all responsible for our own recoveries.  No one else is responsible for how I feel but me.  I will not give that power to others.

Sorry, but I have little respect for the culture of victimhood promoted by so many Americans.

by EveningStarNM on 12/04/2008 03:10:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
definitely should not have run (none / 0)
if the mcmartins had run, they would've been fugitives until they were caught and had their names cleared on the molestation charges, but they STILL would be charged with felony evasion.  Running itself IS a crime, even if you're innocent.  That's why it's not worth risking running if you're innocent.  It's OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, so polanski IS guilty either way.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/03/2008 06:10:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I agree with this view. (none / 0)
The only reason we can never know the truth is because Polanski never submitted to a trial of his peers. I don't want to throw stones--if I were in his shoes I don't know if I would flee or stick around to find out just how well the justice system works. Its a pretty expensive affair from what I hear. But then I wouldn't "shoplift the pootie" either.

by hazmat on 12/03/2008 07:58:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
but I disagree (none / 0)
with the view that this is conservative vs. liberal. Its conservatives who have done the most to undermine the rule of law after all. All that crap about pluto and mars undermined an otherwise decent post. Nice try, I guess.

by hazmat on 12/03/2008 08:00:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]
All things are Red vs. Blue to conservatives. (none / 0)

by Spencer on 12/03/2008 08:07:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
seriously (none / 0)
did any of that stuff happen to you? Is that why you're conservative? Because you're profoundly unlucky? Are you implying that conservatives are just embittered losers? I hope you're wrong, man.

by hazmat on 12/03/2008 09:00:55 PM EST

[ Parent ]
once again you didn't read your links (none / 0)
that article about "affirmative action" would enforce a reason to have affirmative action which whites now need as much as blacks, if not more.  That was a DEMOCRATIC idea, and that link to the "held up at gunpoint" article had absolutely no reference to anyone being held up at gunpoint, although i get what you were "trying" to say.  I swear, sometimes i think you just hope people don't click the links and won't check your facts or something.  We don't follow rush limbaugh, so those tactics won't work here buddy.  Maybe you're finally coming out to of your democratic closet, and figuring out that your beliefs are closer to the "obamabots" than you think.  I mean, we've agreed on a lot of things today Ken, i'd be scared if i were you...you're catching the black.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/03/2008 10:43:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
what are you talking mayne? (none / 0)
i have no problem admitting that asian americans on the whole test better than any other american race, INCLUDING whites, because they don't fuck around with their kids.  You are the one misreading the article, it means that WHITE people NEED affirmative action too.  Your blinders are on because that makes YOU uncomfortable...i don't care about testing standards personally, so I have no problem acknowledging socioeconomcally affected educational testing trends.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/04/2008 01:24:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Not sure if you're aware of this (none / 0)
but Barack Obama is two steps ahead of you on this, as he is with everything else. Welcome to the 21st century, KenTX.

by hazmat on 12/04/2008 02:24:36 AM EST

[ Parent ]
not one of my issues, really (none / 0)
but you don't win anyone to your side with reckless exaggeration. Wanna try one more time?

by hazmat on 12/04/2008 02:41:56 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I have to disagree with haz here (none / 0)
and completely agree regarding the reformation of AA you just suggested.  I've always felt it should be this way.

by jarett on 12/04/2008 11:38:35 AM EST

[ Parent ]
In my defense (none / 0)

I didn't offer any statements to agree or disagree with. Here's the chronology.

Ken points out that quotas are bad.

I presented a quote from Obama in which he states that quotas are bad and AA needs reformation.

In response, Ken stipulates that the problem with AA is that Obama's children could be favored in admissions at oregon state over an asian dude with higher grades, because they have both the advantages of sick wealth and the racial quota.

This isn't an appropriate response for 2 reasons: fundamentally it appears that Obama and Ken are in some agreement, but Ken doesn't want that to hang out there too long so he digs up an extreme example from the current situation which is irrelevant to the discussion of outcomes for policies that have yet to be enacted. Second, the example he cites is an extreme one. It is plausible but rare, and it should be noted that extreme wealth probably trumps all other advantages regardless of skin color. I think there's a discussion to be had here, but as I said before, ken didn't help his cause with this example. I ain't buyin' it.

There's a more fundamental issue, that of social engineering. That's the debate Ken wants to have. If we quibble about reforming AA Ken has already lost.

by hazmat on 12/04/2008 12:11:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I guess what I'm saying is (none / 0)
Ken's position is clear--its just surprisingly liberal.

by hazmat on 12/04/2008 12:36:50 PM EST

[ Parent ]
If that's the case (none / 0)
why didn't you support Obama? He is for killing Islamic Jihadis (he's the only one who said so in a debate, in fact), and for cutting most people's taxes. And he's liberal on most other issues. If you're not in the category that is likely to receive a cut, I can't say I feel too bad for you.

by hazmat on 12/04/2008 03:45:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Bush raised taxes more (none / 0)

than any president in recent memory. That was before the bailout. Remember, spending is taxes. Not paying as you go equals more taxes on top in the form of accumulating interest. If you don't understand the relationship between spending and taxes, the republicans are going to continue to eat your lunch. You lose. Actually, you could think of it as a win, now that a fiscal conservative is taking over.

This figure is from '04. How do you think it looks after this year? If you really care about taxes, your vote for mccain was a mistake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

by hazmat on 12/04/2008 10:11:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
That's the first time (none / 0)
I've ever been out of breath just from using my scroll wheel.  Whew...  ;)

by Spencer on 12/05/2008 05:48:27 AM EST

[ Parent ]
sorry dude (none / 0)
I have no clue what I did wrong there. Otherwise I would try to avoid it next time.

by hazmat on 12/05/2008 12:29:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Presidents don't have control (none / 0)

over defense spending? My friend, if this president had spent 1.5 trillion dollars on some war that was beneficial to us, instead of the Iraq war, I wouldn't be laughing as hard as I am right now at your state of extreme delusion and denial.

Of course, I don't know if Obama will be able to cut non-defense spending, but you can hardly demand that after what bush did. He grew the budget in both areas, more than all of his predecessors. Obama has already signaled his intention to try to spend our way out the republican depression that we're in. Get used to that phrase. What's on the table here is whether he can do the right things soon enough. I'm pretty certain that McCain, as honorable as he is, is going senile. He couldn't govern his way out of a wet paper bag. Thank god he lost.

by hazmat on 12/05/2008 12:27:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
p.s. (none / 0)
I could have posted either of these graphs but chose the one I did because it specifically adresses the issue of tax raises. It clearly shows that Reagan in both of his terms and Clinton in his first term were the best of modern presidents in reducing taxes, and that Bush II is in a category with LBJ in terms of non-defense spending increases.

by hazmat on 12/05/2008 12:39:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
no excuses here (none / 0)
dude, I don't believe in the current state of affirmative action, and as someone else pointed out, "YOUR" AA plan is "OBAMA'S" AA plan, so you support obama.  I never use aa on my tests, and i fill in other.  I got my college education on my merits, not my color, so your rants don't even begin to piss me off.  You're way off here.  You obviously don't remeber my retort about not believing in AA.  I am consistent as fuck because I have morals that are easy to stand by.  We're not quibbling over any fine points, you have completely misrepresented the article.  If anything, it's proof that the Asians in that area worked harder as youth than the whites or blacks, so the AA needs to compensate for both of those groups, NOT that affirmative action caused this...you're confused mayne.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/04/2008 03:56:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
cough cough (none / 0)

by chrisandyasemin on 12/04/2008 04:00:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]
i figured you'd say that (none / 0)
what planet are you on?  you just made some shit up, and you continue to not to aknowledge nuance.  he supports affirmative action NOW, but he still aims to change it to needs based not race based.  You're spinning his words into something he didn't say at all.  I've heard him literally say the words "need based affirmative action, not race based", now show me somewhere he says it's okay to discriminate against white men.  You can't do it, because he says the exact opposite.  You're just putting your blinders on for some reason.  Snap out of it, he agrees with you, or you agree with him however you want to break it to yourself.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/04/2008 11:30:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
not good at nuance are you? (none / 0)
do you not understand that he believes that the current state of affairs still need affirmative action, and did you just wipe your memory, or did you not hear his response about his daughter vs. a white young man.  It is the exact point you tried to make at the beginning of this conversation, and he responded directly to it, but somehow you missed it.  Let me explain the "nuance" portion.  Currently, there ARE social disparities in many parts of the educational system in America.  Some of these disparities HAPPEN to fall along racial lines because of other socioeconomic factors, and in some areas the ASIANS are more advantaged, and in some areas WHITES are more advantaged, and in some ares BLACKS are more advantaged.  Now, he DOES want to change the system to needs based during his administration, and nowhere in the video does he indicate otherwise, what he SAID was that he does think affirmative action will still be necessary, but you're imposing the OLD AA on his definition, when really he has the same idea of affirmative action as you.  Ultimately affirmative action should not be necessary, but at the same time that is not true EVERYWHERE in the U.S.  Personally, I believe all black schools are racist, and I turned down a full ride to Florida A & M to go to my current school because I think black schools are fucked, and they are a nasty artifact of segregation that for some reason blacks have stupidly held on to as symbols of pride.  Personally, i think a white person SHOULD get aa if the school is predominately any other race, although if the whites are richer than the minority, then they probably don't need it, thus the reason it should be wealth based.  it's not unconsitutional if aa is making sure all people are able to pursue happiness through education.  Personally, I think all black schools are more unconstitutional than aa, but technically they're not ALL black, just like 99%.  I was really pissed when some black school tried not to let a white person be the valedictorian because of his race.  That's when I say blacks can go fuck themselves too.  So, to recap:  Obama believes in needs based, and he's the fucking president so if you want to believe it or not, you're only going to make YOURSELF upset by not coming to terms with Obama's centrism.  

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/05/2008 06:59:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Obama's centrism (none / 0)
Its amazing how many conservatives are expressing shock and surprise that Obama is governing the way he promised instead of as a socialist. They're still cooking their own intelligence ;-)

by hazmat on 12/05/2008 09:07:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
not governing? (none / 0)

You seem to think I made some careless cheeseball comment, but that is not the case.

Obama is indeed governing. Do you think that the process of appointing the various cabinet members are not among the most important decisions the President makes as a governor? The office of the President-elect is governing in some limited capacity. It may seem unprecedented what's happening right now, but there is no question in my mind that Obama is attempting to fill a leadership vacuum while allowing, to the extent possible, the Bush administration (which Peggy Noonan describes as a "collapsed incumbency") to save some face. Equally true is that the Bush administration, by all accounts is cooperating with Obama's transition team (apart from ramming through regulations which every president does anyway). I don't know why you thought this was worth a rebuttal, but that's my view of things.

by hazmat on 12/07/2008 04:28:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
so it was blogs that turned you to the dark side (none / 0)

I grew up around conservatives, went to church every week as a compulsive family activity, and even developed a fondness for it. The conservatives that influenced me were of the WWII generation, but they weren't partisans like today. They were the herbert walker types that viewed the laffer curve with suspicion, and never forgot that they fought side by side (or below decks) against totalitarian aggression. The phrase "we are americans first" meant something to them, and they didn't secretly hide the sentiment that we are americans first but only if we're in the same party. I remember one Navy Veteran in particular that new I was a democrat, but quietly and cheerfully said he'd hoped I would consider voting for Bob Dole, becuase he was a man of character. Since he passed away I almost regret my vote for Clinton for his sake and people like him.

To such people who are my lifelong role-models (and liberals of their generation), your word is your bond, as it is mine. I think they are only republican out of habit these days. I don't hold it against them. Anyone who pays attention closely like my father, a Reagan Democrat (now a registered republican), has been completely turned off by the GOP. My father proudly tells republicans in his office that he is a "RINO", which used to be an epithet. He keeps his registration in hopes that the party will one day try to win his vote back.

If conservative means fiscal responsibility at home and prudence abroad, then that's me. If it means recognizing the important but limited role of government to regulate commerce and financial markets, then that's me. Where the private sector fails for an extended period of time, as it has with health care, the government has an obligation to offer some remedy. The democratic party is the only party currently promoting those values, so they have my vote for the foreseeable future.

by hazmat on 12/03/2008 10:59:28 PM EST

[ Parent ]
it's not black and white (none / 0)
that's why we agree on this issue.  If everything were conservative vs. liberal, it would be easy.  if you want to say I'm a conservative on this issue because Polanski is a chester, go ahead...if you think I'll ever vote republican, I would wager money on it, and send you a voter registration form for proof forever...face it ken, we agree sometimes, so that means you're a little bit liberal inside.  If you're as much liberal as I am conservative, i still win because I can deal with being called conservative.  How's it feel to be a lib?

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/03/2008 10:23:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
75% (none / 0)
I guess I'm about 75% neoliberal then, except when you get to laissez faire economics.  it just doesn't take into account the factor (x) of human greed.  It's everpresent and incalculable, and it has always proven laissez faire misjudged it.  I think in real life, you can leave the markets on their own to a certain degree, but once the balance of pay to the top vs. the bottom where the production actually happens gets too disparate, the market will get more value from the trading inflation than revenue dividends, and that's when it's on its way to failure.  The simplest solution is to make a middle class that can consume at the same rate of production, otherwise the mass-production model(i.e. g.m.,ford,chrysler) will implode on itself because there are not enough consumers in the market.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/03/2008 10:57:19 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Gosh, never knew (none / 0)
that Ken had any opinion on gay issues, until now. It was always about lower taxes and killin' jihadists. The gun stuff I could predict from a TXn. But please, let's hear more about how letting your two male neighbors get hitched would violate your rights. A Culture Warrior finally comes out of the closet.

by ashbul on 12/03/2008 10:48:23 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Almost forgot (none / 0)
to mention, they're both Roustabouts.

by ashbul on 12/03/2008 10:50:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
All it means (none / 0)
is that you have to talk to your kids about the things they encounter in everyday life.  This includes field trips at school (in your somewhat silly example), some precocious 10 year old stealing his dad's Playboy, something they see on TV, etc.

This is parenting.

by jarett on 12/04/2008 11:35:43 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Field Trip! Yes! (none / 0)
I wish I'd gotten to get off schoolwork to go to weddings. I like cake.

by ashbul on 12/04/2008 09:07:02 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Let the record show (none / 0)
Ken hates cake and doesn't pay attention.

by ashbul on 12/05/2008 02:21:15 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Personally (none / 0)
I can't wait to pay high taxes and then beat the crap out of my representatives to make sure I'm getting something out of them.

And your six year old twins tell you about an upcoming field trip to see their female teacher marry another woman.

God bless, go forward.

And you get held up at gunpoint.

... so you decide banning guns is a good idea?

(Sorry, but you walked into that one.)

And you find out that the number of Asians attending Oregon State is now being restricted, because that minority is "over-represented"

Silly, and something should be done about it.

And Democrats resume promoting outlawing the Second Amendment

lol no.

and driving faster than 55 MPH.

You mean GASP a sacrifice of some kind should be asked of Americans in a time of war?  Wow.  How outrageous.

That said, I would be in favor of a wholesale revamping of traffic law in general, as some cities' use of traffic law as a revenue generator (I'm looking at you, New York) enrages me to no end... but I digress.

by jarett on 12/04/2008 11:33:36 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I am shocked! SHOCKED! (none / 1)

...that no one has retorted with the obvious:

"Conservatives are from Mars..."

No, they are from Uranus!!



ha ha...see, 'cause it's another planet (unlike, say, Pluto [he's a talking mouse's pet dog, silly!] which lost it's planetary status) and it's got the word "anus" in it and most Conservatives are...well, you get the idea...

by MedfordTim on 12/03/2008 11:37:12 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Conservatives are from the Horseshit Nebula (none / 0)
You know why Pluto lost its planetary status, right?  Because they had to give it to Ken after he ate his weight in chicken-fried car tires on a bet.

by OneHitKill on 12/04/2008 12:00:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]
KuKluxKenTX is funny (none / 0)
"Conservatives don't spend a lot of time hand wringing over the unknown."

really?

Its ALL conservatives do! Conservatives entire world view is based on paranoia.

Everyone is out to get them


by Chinese Democracy on 12/04/2008 05:24:43 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Fascinating where this thread went!!! (none / 0)
I'd clearly lost track of Polanski---When I saw the name I immediately thought "Sharon Tate" and "Helter Skelter"...

by tifosies on 12/05/2008 08:15:29 PM EST

that's why i did't over-elaborate (none / 0)
sometimes a few words will spark a huge thread...and I don't have to say something that's COMPLETELY based in fiction to piss people off enough to comment.

Chris

by chrisandyasemin on 12/07/2008 01:35:51 PM EST

[ Parent ]
KUDOS!!!!!! :-) (none / 0)

by tifosies on 12/07/2008 02:33:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
This is (none / 0)
an exceedingly dumb argument. You can believe whatever you wish.

by hazmat on 12/08/2008 06:30:29 PM EST

more bloviating (none / 0)
spin on top of spin. Your world-view has been exposed as woefully bankrupt (pun-intended) and the only response you have is to hold the new leadership "accountable" before they've had a chance to make any significant policy moves. If you can't see that the GOP has failed massively, you're a dead ender. There's not much I can say or do for you. You can nurse your delusions and your shrinking bank account by yourself. Maybe if you're lucky you can leave that job as a night watchman and get a job at the Cato institute. I hear they have some vacancies.

by hazmat on 12/08/2008 08:27:56 PM EST

I stand by my previous statements (none / 0)
Every one of them. You idiot.

by hazmat on 12/08/2008 10:42:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
p.s. (none / 0)

when have I ever shied away from admitting I was wrong about anything? Here's how you know when I'm wrong ken. I'll tell you. Its real easy. This is how you conservatives get into trouble. You're wrong about something and then you start lying to cover it up.

Arguing with you is like arguing with the Black Knight from monty python's holy grail. I hack of one of your limbs and you shout "its only a surface scratch, where are you going? Coward!".

by hazmat on 12/08/2008 10:59:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
what's the matter (none / 0)

do you need a friend, ken? Maybe the forum can judge. If one of my typical allies (like bias, pear or spence) and says my usage of "governing" was inappropriate in this context, I'll accept their judgement and move on with it. However, I will say that the usage was not a "mistake". Obama has made several governing decisions already in transition, because it is a transition to power after all, and those decisions have been the subject of some debate (and not without controversy). You're response to my original statement, "Its amazing how many conservatives are expressing shock and surprise that Obama is governing the way he promised instead of as a socialist." totally misinterpreted the scope of what I was asserting. I'm sorry, I can't help you. Now you've made an entire thread out of trying to prove that I made some grave error of judgement. What a pedant.

Of course, this is how conservatives operate. They identify some false dicotomy ("Either you agree that Obama is in full control of the presidency, or you must concede that he isn't part of the government") and declare themselves the judge of their own little controversy. Now run along, you've been spanked. You can join Bobo and twba in the corner.

by hazmat on 12/09/2008 12:57:52 AM EST

[ Parent ]
for anyone who's curious (none / 0)
about this sordid affair, here is the link to the original thread that ken thinks is the waterloo to the mighty hazmat. Oy.

by hazmat on 12/09/2008 01:06:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]
As one of the allies, I'll say (none / 0)
hazmat is right.  It's a nuanced discussion, and it's not at all surprising that Ken isn't following it.

by Spencer on 12/09/2008 04:02:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
F%*# Roman Polanski | 57 comments (57 topical, 0 hidden)
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