01/03/2009 12:35:03 AM EST

Gaza Tragedy

posted by doganu

Palestinians lately Hamas are working for the State of Israel.

If not, how can you explain the mindless attacks of Hamas to Israel?  Unless, you are so stupid or religious zealot hoping that god will save you from those Israeli bombs. You are not only giving Israel perfect excuse to kill you, also, you are wiping out all support in the world public opinion.  You are turning civilian victims into people who can be portrayed as monstrous aggressors.  Around 100 AD Jewish people tried your methods against Romans in Masada.  The only thing they have from that mistake is Hanukah Holiday and valuable lesson:  When there is an impossible force imbalance, sacrifice is not going to work. 

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When are Palestinians going to understand the Jewish state’s ultimate goal?  Last sixty years did not teach you anything at all.  You are trying 100 AD war tactics in 2008.  For god’s sake STOP attacking Israel.  START civil disobedience, get perfect English speaking, honest & knowledgeable leaders to explain your tragedy to the rest of the world.  Don’t count on those Muslim nations worthless lip service.  When time comes everybody is going to look after their own interest. 

Yes, with the help and urging of US and Europe, United Nations gave away your ancestral land.

Yes you are beaten, killed and insulted.

Remember how Mahatma Gandhi freed 700,000 million people with war of ideas not with bombs. 

Remember how Martin Luther King Jr. started the revolution that put Barak Obama in the White House. 

Remember how Jewish people won the minds and hearts of USA and Europe even though there was tremendous Christian prejudice against them because they supposedly killed their most revered prophet Jesus Christ.  Answer is not war but culture. 

Remember how Mandela beat apartheid in South Africa.

You are fighting the wrong war with one to ten thousand imbalance.  You have no right to have thousand of civilians killed because of your crazy religious or political ideology.  Please, please come to your senses.  Prepare and sit down at the peace table to negotiate unless you are ready to sacrifice thousands and thousand of people for next sixty years.

Dogan Uygur

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Gaza Tragedy | 12 comments (12 topical, 0 hidden)
easier said than done.. (none / 0)
Very intresting thoughts about what should be the palestinian game-plan. The pen is indeed mightier than the sword.
BUT, the notion that the palestinians suddenly would realize this and change their tactics is unrealistic. It simply won't happen by itself.

In order to successfully change the coarse of action to a more peacful one with civil disobedience etc takes a strong leader which we havnt seen yet on the palestinian side. The palestinians today are a divided people. This is the first obstacle that they have to overcome.
One thing that could help pushing their solution to a more peacful one is increased education. This is where the US and the EU should contribute with funding.

Overall i like your idea even though it is MUCH more easier said than done.

by DrT on 01/01/2009 11:07:39 AM EST

I completey agree with DrT. (none / 0)

I wish that Cenk would mention the link between lack of education and wisdom.  We expect the Palestinians to make such wise decisions that have been well-pondered upon. Truth is that uneducated people tend to stick to guns and religion. And it takes education, and, usually, exposure to the scientific process, to approach things in a logical and practical manner. I completely expect the Palestinian 'fighters', most of whom are uneducated teenagers and young adults, to behave the way they do. Let's not even get into the psychological affects of being unemployed on the Educated. (Only 4 persons out of 10 persons are part of the labour force in Gaza Stip.)

But what I don't expect is the Israeli government, constituting highly educated members, to act the way they usually do, and how they are reacting to the current situation in the Gaza Strip. If I am an intelligent, wise Israeli who approaches issues logically and in a calm manner, then I can easily realize that the best way to stop Hammas is through dialogue AND, since dialogue alone won't solve anything, by giving them land that belonged to them as per the 1967 boarders. They can settle the details through dialogue and negotiations. So, why is the Israeli government acting the way they are now? Could it be because they actually don't want to give the Palestinians any more land? That's the only 'logical' conclusion I can come to.

Cenk raised a great point when he was arguing with Michael Shure yesterday. He said that Israel should speak through their actions. Some pro-Israelis keep saying, “The Palestinians will not be happy until they've taken every bit of land from them. What happens when they are given half of Jerusalem and they still want more?” It's the same kind of question that pro-slavery advocates iterated prior to abolition: “What's next, rights for dogs?” Instead of actually taking actions and speaking through these actions, these what-ifs are raised to scare us and divert attention from the actual issue. But we all know that anti-slavery advocates simply wanted equal rights for Blacks. But what's MORE important to realize is that the pro-slavery advocates knew that ALL the anti-slavery advocates wanted were equal rights for Blacks and not rights for any and all kinds of 'properties'. Similarly, could it be that the Israeli government asks these types of questions because they don't actually want to give Palestinians any more land? This question lies at the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Land or no land? Yes or no?

by shuaib on 01/01/2009 02:10:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
agree, but... (none / 0)
>One thing that could help pushing their solution to a >more peacful one is increased education. This is where >the US and the EU should contribute with funding

totally agree, but let's not forget that we're talking about a people who part of the time don't even have electricity.
I think, especially in the US, a lot of people seem to forget that a large portion of the Palestinian still live in the camps the Israelis put them in 50 years ago. When I say camps, don't think of concentration camps, but camps nonetheless, maybe they're more like reservations. And yes for a large portion of the last 50 years Palestinians left the reservation in the morning to go work in Israel, afterwhich they could return to their shanty towns.
Compare it to the Mexican immigrant in the US who cleans the house for a rich white American for a crapy wage and has to go home to a bad neighborhood WITH the difference the Mexican isn't the immigrant, but the white American is and on top that used to be your land he built on.

by callisto on 01/01/2009 06:02:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Good post. (none / 0)
And of course Dogan (and Cenk) are right, the question (as commenters have noted) is how to convince them.

by Tom Hanc on 01/03/2009 04:24:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
CULTURE (none / 0)
Chanukah was actually in resistance to the greeks under antiouchus much earlier than 100 ad, before you start bashing jews at least get a perspective on our culture. Secondly, terrorists have tactics of making westerners look like the bad guys, by hiding behind civilians, or attacking Israel just enough so theyu retalliate harder and the palestinians look to Hamas for help.

by nmaks on 01/01/2009 06:17:22 PM EST

addition (none / 0)
You are right however that the behaviour of hamas is destructive to Palestine

by nmaks on 01/01/2009 06:20:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
cmon nmaks (none / 0)
Of couuuurse hamas bahaviour is destructive, no one is arguing. But ask yourself why are they behaving the way they do?
Nobody is "bashing" Israel. No single nation alone is to blame but rather everybody involved. Therefore we have to stop thinking: "why are they blaming us, its their fault" and try to see it from everybodys perspective.

by DrT on 01/01/2009 06:26:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sad (none / 0)
Dogan was actually defending Israel there and attacking Palestinian methods. A muslim (or former muslim, don't know) tries to reach out a hand and what do you do, you slap it away. BTW he didn't say anything bad about your culture.

If as a Westerner you can't see, beside the good things we've done through history, also the load upon load of bad things, then you're so ignorant about history, it's not even worth talking to you.

by callisto on 01/01/2009 06:32:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
mistake (none / 0)
this one seems to be sympathetic of Israel but there are many bashers in these types of liberal sites.

by nmaks on 01/01/2009 06:42:35 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Please (none / 0)
American meanstream media will almost always only present Israel's case and most "liberal" sites will probably show the two perspectives, but almost none are anti-Israeli.

and criticizing Israel isn't necessarily "bashing", let alone being "anti"

reminds me of a lot of (especially) rightwing Americans react, say something bad about America and you're anti-American. Why is it that the guy in the biggest tank is always first the one to accuse people of being against them.

by callisto on 01/01/2009 07:10:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
of course (none / 0)
Good comparison there callisto. Of course you have to:
First quit the blockade in order for normal trade (food, gas etc) to take place, even though some weapons will be smuggeled in. I dont know if that amout will increase or not though.
THEN the UN (mainly US and EU) should contribute and make shure that the infrastructure will be improved (thereby creating jobs) in order to build schools and universities.
I firmly belive that education is one of the keys to success in this case. But in order to do that there are some obstacles (food, unemployment etc) that has to be overcome first.

by DrT on 01/01/2009 06:19:25 PM EST

Dogan was actually defending .. (none / 0)
Dogan was actually defending Israel there and attacking Palestinian methods. A muslim (or former muslim, don't know) tries to reach out a hand and what do you do, you slap it away. BTW he didn't say anything bad about your culture. club penguin

by hankjmatts on 06/22/2010 02:30:16 AM EST

Gaza Tragedy | 12 comments (12 topical, 0 hidden)
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