Michelle Obama and the level of public discourse

Watching the piece about Michelle Obama's pride for her country on Hardball and have to vent:

Only in America!

Hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis, hundreds of billions in deficit, torture as an overt policy, a couple of million more poor Americans, ...

and this is what the Land of the Free cares about, it's just sick and immature.
If you could see this from outsight the bubble that is the USA, you would truely be able to appreciate how ridiculous and scary this is.

For the "most free country on the planet" (NewsWeek reported that all of West- and Northern Europe and Canada score better than the US on freedom issues), the US has a lot of litmus tests on fate, on criticism of one's country, sexuality, ...

American people have to live in a straightjacked when it comes to their patriotism, which reminds more of the Soviet Union than the American movies the world grew up on and loved.

If a politician in France or Germany would say he's ashamed of his country and explains why, this person will get elected, if people belief his explanation. Mainstream American public discourse is at a grade school level, when will the US finally grow up?

It is truely painful to see mainstream hosts every night report on non substance issues and think that's the height of public discourse in the world.

When Garry Kasparov talked to Bill Maher on Real Time, all the guests where amazed at how elevated his level of political discourse was. Wake up, that's normal in the rest of the West.

The US has more than enough smart and very smart people, the problem is that most of the time, their voices are drowned out by all the BS noice.

BTW I hope a real conversation can finally start about how elections are funded in the US, because ONLY IN AMERICA. People outside the US bubble call corporate donations to politicians what it is: corruption, and is hence illegal. How most people in America don't acknowledge this practice as corrupt and fundamentally undemocratic is a total mystery to and the rest of the democratic world.

Look: respect for Cenk & TYT, Olbermann, Bill Maher, most AAR hosts, Jon Stewart, Fareed Zakaria, Jonathan Alter and a couple of others for keeping my hope alive, a hope that America is not lost afterall. Keep putting down those "We're number 1"-glasses and see what's really going on, because you can only fix something if you see the truth and not the propaganda.
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I always get a little irked when people talk about how dumb America is.  I'd say we're slow, not necessarily dumb.  We usually come around to see things, but we get pretty damned set in our ways in the meantime.  Also, seeing nuance is not our strong suit, as evidenced by the rightwings reaction to Michelle Obama's comments.   But I think the vast majority of America could care less about this "issue".

That said, I just watched the Vietnam documentary "Hearts and Minds" last night, and I can see how anyone who was alive while that was going on would not really feel all that proud to be an American. 

by Spencer on 02/20/2008 10:46:50 PM EST

Never said America was dumb, it might act dumb on a lot of levels, but the people who control it are not dumb.

I think a lot of the time Americans tend to be ignorant about things outside their border, probably because of a cradle to grave "We're number one in everything and nobody can do it better than we" message that is everywhere.

I also think this extreme cheerleading attitude when it comes to patriotism is a way to mask the fear that is everywhere in American society. Scare is constantly trying to be put into Americans every day and all the time. The higher rate of violent crime in the US of course is no illusion and one of the things that should be solved, but "thou shall not regulate my Uzi"-attitude will probably make this impossible in the near future

by callisto on 02/20/2008 11:09:00 PM EST

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Thanks for calling me ignorant.  I really appreciate this elevated dialogue we're having (truly unAmerican).  Keep in mind that I did say that I agree with you mostly.  But you're probably right.  I'm just ignorant anyway.

Also, thanks for not really responding to anything that I said other than the very first line.  I don't think I mentioned guns or crime or anything like that.  But how would I remember?  I am ignorant after all.

by Spencer on 02/20/2008 11:16:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
let me say that I think we both agree a LOT of Americans *are* ignorant.  Have you seen the percentages on belief in creationism vs evolution recently?  Or who's been president the last 7 years?  Exactly.

But in fairness, ignorance is the not the same as stupidity.  The fact is, a lot of these dopes just don't know any better.  They had sub-par (and or short lived) educations, they're sorrounded by other dopes and they're not instilled with a sense of *real* patriotism, the kind that makes you care about substantive rather than superficial issues (you know, caring about illegal wars and torture vs who wears a flag pin or how often someone says The Pledge).

Television (the biggest modern distraction), which could be used to inform on a massive scale, instead often feeds the ignorance and or misinformation. You'll find most people watching BS (which can admittedly be incredibly entertaining) like American Idol or the latest sitcom or watching local or cable news that barely touches on relevant issues in any meanginful way.

The first part is fine *if* it's used sparingly (sort of like junk food), but pointless television makes up the information diet of far too many Americans.  And all of this junk information leads to fat, lazy minds that are incapable of critical thinking, problem solving or unique thought.

by Tom Hanc on 02/20/2008 11:35:06 PM EST

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Spence please,

I never called YOU ignorant + never said the gun/crime had any bearing on what you think + I only attacked you on the fact that you said I called Americans dumb, on nothing else

on the rest of the things you wrote: I think you're correct

by callisto on 02/20/2008 11:38:29 PM EST

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I read the title of your reply as you calling me ignorant, then I proceeded to prove my ignorance by being an asshole.  You're right.  We're cool.  "I'm totally totally totally totally sorry for that."

by Spencer on 02/21/2008 12:01:22 AM EST

[ Parent ]
oh no,no, no, no the title didn't refer to you, it referred to the dumb thing

by callisto on 02/21/2008 12:50:17 PM EST

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