I am outraged.

Email Print posted by naomi 02/28/2008 03:00:59 PM EST

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Here is the link to the new Abu Ghraib Photos:

NSFW: VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED

Call your congressmen!

Right now!

Look at the new pictures of what we have done in Iraq that Cenk showed on the show today and make calls, write the paper, otherwise the blood of these men is on our heads the same as the blood of the Jews was on the heads of the German enablers! 

The time for apathy has long passed:

 

http://www.house.gov/ 

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Poll

Have you called Congress?
Yes 66%
No 33%

Votes: 6
Results | Other Polls
 Display:
I am outraged. | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 hidden)
Doesnt matter what the pictures are... (1.00 / 3)
I haven't seen them either, but calling congress sure as Hell aint gonna do nothing. They are just as guilty on this as Bush is...

They can stop the violence (on our soldiers anyway) tomorrow. Cut the funding!!! But they wont. Their corporatist contributors are making too much money off of the suffering... Spineless greedy bastards...

Dont expect "Wonder Boy" Obama to do much about it either - He's playing for the same Corporatists War Machine team... Like old Grandpa Death McCain said "We're still in Germany, Japan, Korea... "

Thanks...

by bobo1 on 02/28/2008 03:33:00 PM EST

I just called my Congressmen and Senators (none / 0)

We can't just do nothing at all. I think when you see the new photos you will understand.

We must shame the Congress into action. This is no time for defeatist cowardice! 

by naomi on 02/28/2008 03:38:45 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Senators and Congressmen have no shame... (none / 1)
Doesn't our history point that out very clearly?

You go do what you need to do, by all means. But dont expect change. AINT GONNA HAPPEN with this group...

Something needs to change with our current system, and it isnt gonna be cause we call them and tell them to...

Good Luck in your struggles...

by bobo1 on 02/28/2008 03:44:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
wow (5.00 / 3)
that's a really pathetic view.  know how many years union activists had to fight to put a chink corporate america?  you know how many people DIED for it?  what's to lose from calling congressmen and senators?  five minutes of your time?  fine, do it while taking a shit, then.  multitask.

religion isn't the opiate of the masses.  self-indulgent pseudo-intellectual th ought that endorses apathy is.

by mathcore on 02/28/2008 06:19:17 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Yeah, look at those chinks in the corporate armor. (none / 0)
You make my point exactly... We have tried and worked and died and struggled, yet we still find the same issues and concerns never truly being solved...

There is a way to avoid these photos and situations...leave. Cut the money. We all have told and screamed and written letters and protested and bitched and whined and mulled and did everything the way they want us to...and it hasnt gotten us anywhere... And it wont...

"Money talks, and everyone else can get fucked"...that is the motto above the Capitol building now...

Go ahead and write and call. I might not hurt, but it sure as Hell hasnt helped...

by bobo1 on 02/28/2008 10:35:14 PM EST

[ Parent ]
you miss the point (none / 1)
the chinks, the footholds, however you want to look at it...they were there.   apathy is what caused us to lose them.

american greed is cyclical.  people get comfortable with the status quo, and elect a goddamn republican with poor economic policy.  coolidge caused the depression, reagan caused the GDP/income split, and bush junior is trying his damndest to live up to his predecessors' legacies.

republicans destroy the economy through greed-o-nomic practice, and it takes a democrat to clean up the mess.  unlike global warming, this is actually cyclical.

by mathcore on 02/29/2008 04:05:23 AM EST

[ Parent ]
But why encourage people to do nothing? (none / 0)
Aren't you outraged? I am not so naive to think that calling is all we must do, but it is the least we must do.

by naomi on 02/28/2008 03:45:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Oh bobo (none / 1)
Everything sucks.  Lets just sit back and sulk about how right we are.  Nothing we can do could ever make a difference.  Wah!  (Feel free to copy this and make it your signature)
You haven't even seen the pictures yet, but that won't stop you from making up your mind on what we should or shouldn't do about it.  Classic.
I also love how you just have to throw a random Obama attack in there.  Is that possibly because you know it will ruffle people's feathers and no doubt hijack the topic?  Cause that would be out of character for you.
Consider this comment ranked as unproductive.

by Spencer on 02/28/2008 04:10:33 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Please read above, Spencer... (none / 0)
I dont give a shit what you do, personally...

Go ahead and call and write...

Keep your dreams of functional government alive for all the good its ever done ya...

We'll see whose right...

thanks...

by bobo1 on 02/28/2008 10:37:16 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Do you even want to be right on this? (none / 0)

by Spencer on 02/29/2008 12:10:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Huh? (none / 1)
Now Im gonna guess what your question is really asking...

Do I like the pictures (now that I have seen them) - no, of course not.

Am I outraged - No, I think you people who are bitching and whining still believe that our world is a great place, and that everyting can be rosy and bright... Fucking please...

As I listen to Cenk rant about this, I get this feeling that he is being somewhat dishonest about his feelings. He knows that this has been going on since the Giddyup - we are just now learning about it publicly due to new media... throwing yourself around isnt productive, and it makes him sound a bit like a whiner...we should know how the world operates, some of us just haven't accepted it...

This is our world...this has been the world since the beginning...coping with it and dealing with our own matters and business is the first step in making it better...We are never going to have true power in the sense you guys seem to want (stop torture, honest reporting) in our current system... Logistically its impossible to install widespread change because the money always gets in the way...

A lot of you guys still believe what the meda tells you without thinking - the Obama phenomenon is a prime example of this - until you stop doing that, you wll always be in the shadows...

Wake up man... I doesn't matter if Im right, it only matters if we recognize what is real and what is not...

by bobo1 on 02/29/2008 12:24:31 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Okay (none / 1)

Firstly, "this has been the world since the beginning"?  That's some bullshit.  Things are always getting better.  You should be able to see that as a history teacher.

What I meant by "do you want to be right?" is do you really want there to be nothing you can do to make things better.  Progress has been made since the beginning of time because people are there to make it.  I don't think calling a congressman is going to change the world, but it is a step (albeit a small one), so why discourage it.

You're position comes down to "the world sucks, it's always going to suck, so buy a helmet".  That's the most regressive position you could have.  You said you want a "revolution", just so long as you don't have to do it.  Tell me what your "revolution" entails that doesn't involve people taking some action?  I said before that nothing is worse than a brainless contrarian, and wow are you proving it now.  You're saying people should be less politically active...  I really don't even know how to argue against something that moronic.

 And as far as the whole "you can do whatever you want" thing that you couch all your bullshit arguments in...  Someone who really believed that would have never posted in the first place, so spare me.

by Spencer on 02/29/2008 12:39:00 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Okay back... (none / 1)
Now you have me listing things...

1. The world has not gotten "Better". Has it gotten easier - yes, have the problems changed in basis - no...
racism is still racism, rich and poor have always been, hate and anger have always been present. machismo and Femininity have always clashed... In their roots, the problems we suffer (even those that most consider insignificant) are always the same, and that has never changed...

Any remedial study of history of any part of our world will reveal to you that people in the past dealt with the same core issues that we deal with (Greed, want, war, economy) and haven't come out any different in the end. Everything cycles, everything evolves...the more things change, the more they stay the same...

2. If you had read my last couple of paragraphs, I said that we can improve our situations and the world around us by minding our own affairs, taking care of ourselves and our business. People throughout history tend to debate and discuss and kill each other over things that they cannot possibly hope to solve. Do things improve sometimes? - sure, but resolution is something you rarely see...the underlying causes of whatever event you are talking about have been around forever...some would say that these things are inevitable and are what makes life so interesting...


Calling your congressmen is fine with me...have a great time. On this particular blog, though, you have a lot of young or idealistic people who think that saying something or even standing up to something is gonna change it...its not. Again, I will concede that things get better over time, but the underlying Cause of the problem is Always there...and they will always be there...therefore the problem will always exist and never be solved...

3. The world is what it is. Sucks, Blows, Snorts, Fucks, Orgasms, Joys, Loves, Likes, Shines... it does all of these things... we are so insignificant in the grand scheme of how this world works that I take a farther off view of it. There will always be the Revolutionaries, the Apathetic, the weak, the strong, the lovers and the haters... being politically active in our current system does not advance what ou want in my view...it makes you appear to be whiners, and to quote Bill Murray in "Quickchange" - "Nobody Likes a Whiner".

By all means, go change your world if it makes you feel better and it makes you think you've done something, maybe it actually will do good (I am not here to judge that, how could I?)

I do speak of revolution, I do speak of change, but I have always said that this sort of change needs to come from OUTSIDE of our system... When people get tired enough of the money, corruption, torture, dishonest media, and whiners, action will be taken...and it wont be pretty...This isnt gonna happen in our lifetime, as it hasnt happened in our fathers or Grandfathers lifetimes, but it will eventually...until then, one can secure his own well being and prepare themselves and their children for the world they are gonna have to live in... I would say its a matter of pragmatism..."Sha la la La La La Live for Today..." as the song goes...

4. As for being brainless, I would argue (perhaps to no avail) that I have actually examined this sort of issue extensively and made a logical and supported position. This is one of those things you actually have to sit around and think about, discuss with others and formulate conclusions... Again, Im not so concerned with what you think of me personally, but I can surmise that you are probably young, idealistic and have not had the opportunity to live and learn. As for being contrarian - yeah - you're right, but I blog to learn, I blog to discuss, and maybe my icy heart will slowly melt and I can see the good you constantly speak of. I post questions (sometimes aggresively and rudely, my apologies) to generate discussion and it is usually successful. I enjoy our talks, and I learn about others and continue to grow as a person... thats why I post...

Thanks for reading, I know I went a bit long...


by bobo1 on 02/29/2008 01:09:05 AM EST

[ Parent ]
We have reached an impasse. (none / 0)

And it wouldn't be the first time.

1.  I agree that the core issues themselves haven't changed all that much.  The degree and the way that we deal with them has however, and that's due to people's actions (like calling your congressman as a possible example) or changes in the attitudes towards whatever the issue is (like racism/sexism becoming more unacceptable).

2.  "we can improve our situations and the world around us by minding our own affairs, taking care of ourselves and our business".  I agree, but that's easy to say when you're relatively happy with where you are in life.  Black people during the civil rights movement should have just minded their own affairs?  Jews during WWII should have just taken care of themselves?  And, just a quick aside, you're against illegal immigration.  Aren't the illegals just trying to take care of themselves?

3.  How's that "revolution" going to happen if everybody is busy minding their own business?

4.  Here lies the impasse.  I am young (23) BTW, so I'm more than prepared to have you discount everything I have to say based on that, as I'm sure you're preparing to do.  But keep in mind that Strom Thurmond was older than god, and he was still a stupid racist asshole.  "Age ain't nothing but a number" as the pedophiles say.

I will apologize though for calling you brainless and moronic and all that stuff I throw out off hand all the time.  You think about things, but that just means you're really set in your ways (which are wrong) and I'll have to keep hacking away at you.  ;)

We're all TYT fam afterall, so I can't hate you too much. 

by Spencer on 02/29/2008 01:34:24 AM EST

[ Parent ]
refereeing the exchange (none / 0)
bobo: "We can improve our situations and the world around us by minding our own affairs, taking care of ourselves and our business". 
That's right bobo. Think globally, act locally.

spencer: "I agree, but that's easy to say when you're relatively happy with where you are in life.  Black people during the civil rights movement should have just minded their own affairs?  Jews during WWII should have just taken care of themselves?" 
Your problems aren't quite as bad as those of slaves and European Jews. You need to concentrate on preparing yourself for a career, working hard, and earning a place for yourself in society.

spencer:  "I am young (23) BTW, so I'm more than prepared to have you discount everything I have to say based on that, as I'm sure you're preparing to do." 
Your lack of age and experience simply means you have the potential to improve. You should listen to the advice of your elders if you want to become more happy and successful in life. Seasoned citizens have earned a lot of experience the hard way, and they can tell you what works, and how to avoid pitfalls.

by KenTX on 02/29/2008 06:13:04 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Right Yoda. (none / 0)

Thanks for the advice.

BTW we weren't talking about my problems.  I think we're talking about innocent tortured Iraqis in Abu Ghraib. 

Do you believe Ken, like bobo does, that calling your congressman and voicing your opinion is for young idealistic kids and that it's really pointless?  I'll bet you've put one or two calls in yourself.  You seem pretty politically active.

by Spencer on 02/29/2008 07:23:23 AM EST

[ Parent ]
since you asked (none / 0)
"Do you believe Ken, like bobo does, that calling your congressman and voicing your opinion is for young idealistic kids and that it's really pointless?" 

As a matter of fact, I just sent a note to my congressman, urging him to support the Protect America Act.

I explained to him that FISA was written in the 1970s, back when there was nothing but land lines and transatlantic cables. There were no satellite phones, disposible cell phones, supercomputers, Islamic Jihadists when FISA was originally conceived.

I think congressional offices log the number of pro and con phone calls and emails to keep track of constituent sentiment.

by KenTX on 02/29/2008 10:29:07 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Ken (none / 0)

I would love for you to explain to the class what you know about networks and how there is a difference between an analog land line and a digital satellite connection.

Oh yea, your congressman is going to tell you to go shit in your hat because he recognizes big brother when he sees it.

Just like a lot of the ex republicans around here. 

by z1p101 on 02/29/2008 08:29:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
or even (none / 0)

how does an e mail account work or what is a super computer?

I would love to here it. 

by z1p101 on 02/29/2008 08:42:49 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Thanks Spencer... (none / 0)
I appreciate your continued converstaion.

I do not dismiss your opinions because of your age. You are an adult as am I, and we can agree or disagree on issues such as these. I appreciate the opportunity, and I appreciate differing perspectives on issues.

As for minding our own business, I believe that taking care of oneself and their families is the key to good soceity. We can be passionate and fight for what we believe in, of course, but the ways in which our current system allows us to vent our issues are insufficent to create real change...


The revolution will come when the toleration level breaks down. We are still on the ascent of our civilization. Recent Presidency aside, we are still rising in the whole spectrum of things here in this country...other countries have already peaked and are now on the downside...look at their stability ... Its all in flux, ever changing.


Atrocities and occurences like Abu Gharib are only a small step toward a much larger path. Scream if you will, but real change comes only when it hits people where it counts...Just like the slaves and Jews that you mentioned, when it was them, they struggled and rose up...even at that it did take others to step in as well, so maybe you're right...I just choose to save my battles for what I feel I can do and change...

Thanks...

by bobo1 on 02/29/2008 12:37:58 PM EST

[ Parent ]
bobo (none / 0)
There is only ONE type of person that angers me more than a super-conservative.  And that would be what I call an 'apathetic cynic'.

I don't know that you really fit the criteria (after all, apathetic cynics tend to avoid listening to political shows and regularly posting their thoughts on political issues), but sometimes you seem to be making the case that you do, as evidenced by some of your posts in this thread.

Spencer has made some good arguments, so I'll only add that constantly being so pessimistic and cynical about how nothing can change tends to create a self fulfilling prophecy.  I'm not telling you to "turn your frown upside down", and I would point out that there IS a difference between being pragmatic (which is fine) Vs. being an apathetic cynic (which is not fine IMO).

by ihavenobias on 02/29/2008 10:30:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]
intolerance (none / 1)
"There is only ONE type of person that angers me more than a super-conservative."

That's exactly what I'm talking about. We've had your kind before in this forum, but fortunately they're rare. I'm talking about liberals who hate conservatives.

Thinking back, the only two participants in this forum who fit into that category would be you, and the guy who is currently using the nic "Chinese Democracy", (as well as his three dozen other IDs).

You need to get your brain around this concept. I'm not changing, and I'm not going away, so you might as well work on your tolerance for people who don't believe in your religion of socialism. 

by KenTX on 02/29/2008 10:41:21 AM EST

[ Parent ]
(Sigh) Are you that desperate to pounce? (none / 0)
Ken, I think you misread my sentence. It doesn't say "there is only ONE type of person that *I hate* more than a super-conservative".

Read it again.  It says "type of person that angers me more..." (Also notice I went out of my way to write *super*-conservative, as opposed to just "conservative". And yes, there is a difference).

What is so "hateful" about that?  You're reading into it the way you WANT to read into it. You just couldn't wait to pounce on that statement and (intentionally?) misinterpret it.

Do I harrass and threaten people? Do I tell anyone I hate them? Do I, as you do/have done, go out of my way to hijack threads or change my usernames to mess with people (or make fun of usernames of people I don't like) and take other cheap shots?  No, no and no (and more no).

You took this opportunity to post an off-topic mini-rant on a topic that apparently boils *your* blood and are projecting onto me.  No thanks.

You don't have to go anywhere. Just don't expect me (or anyone else outside of a couple of your buddies) to take you seriously when you post bullshit like this and pretend to be on some moral high ground when you're the one slinging shit.


PS---I want controlled capitalism. You could also call it a blend of capitalism and socialism (where the % of capitalism is still *higher* than the % of socialsim).  The fact that *you* consider that be straight "socialism" proves that you're extremely conservative and narrow-minded.

by ihavenobias on 02/29/2008 11:05:26 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Oh you want to see hateful KenTX? (none / 0)
What about this little gem.

Just remember that whenever you see a post from a pro-gay participant with a name like Tiny Demon, Leeberal, ZaKK, neon, XxX, Beyondhiv, Dylan, Eva Destruction, they're all the same guy.

Remember the Chinese proverb:
"If you wait by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy float by."

Eventually, he will succumb to AIDS.

--------------------------- --

And there you are in all your non hateful homophobic glory talking about a poster you disgaree with dying of AIDS

And there you are again lumping a bunch of nicks together and saying they are all the same person.It seems to be one of your favorite tricks.

I cant stand paranoid narrow minded homophobic pricks. If you or your buddies are in that catagory to fucking bad.

You have had your comments deleted at least 4 times in the last couple of months.

Here is Dave in the chat room yesterday talking about a post you made.

 theyoungturks : by the way, i think KenTX's comment under the thread Barack who's sane obama is very obnoxious
 04:29 EricCT : exactly
 04:29 mathcore : except the soy milke
 04:29 theyoungturks : i almost want to delete that

Do you see that post anymore KenTx?  

So get off of your high fucking horse. When you stop hijacking threads and flaming people maybe then we can have tea.

You are the typical conservative  when you are overwhelemed with facts you start attacking the messenger. I for one dont intend to be driven away by your tactics or allow you to demean me without responding.

by Chinese Democracy on 02/29/2008 02:38:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'm not watching live... (none / 0)
is there a link to the pics or an explanation?  Based on the blog I'm not sure what's going on.

by ihavenobias on 02/28/2008 03:24:40 PM EST

enhance your calm (none / 0)
First of all these pictures are simply unpublished photos from the original scandal.

You should be angry at what has been done in our name but remember our justice system is corrupt (both at the dept of justice and the Supreme CT) and will remain that way until the pubs are defeated AT THE POLLS.

Direct your rage towards the election

by LORD FOUL on 02/28/2008 04:36:18 PM EST

You can use this website to contact congressmen (none / 0)

This website is a good resource for anyone thinking about contacting congress.

 

http://www.visi.com/juan/co ngress/

by MrsFred on 02/29/2008 12:37:24 AM EST

This administration sucks so bad that... (none / 0)

I have the local and DC phone numbers of my Congresscritters in the phone book on my cell phone. I've even memorized one.

The actions of BushCo's punks in no way reflects the American people. So I look at it as our problem to solve, but we are not responsible for criminal activities of unelected criminals and murderers. It's the elected creeps that we need to get rid of. Anyone who supported the majority of BushCo's agenda is guilty and must go. 

Stop crying and moaning and start dialing, writing, talking, visiting. Shine a spotlight on all the ugly dirt. Be loud but polite. And make sure that the photos and information are everywhere, in enough venues that they can't be ignored.

by zenie on 02/29/2008 02:20:30 PM EST

I am outraged. | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 hidden)
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