Time to attack

Email Print posted by LORD FOUL 02/28/2008 08:54:29 AM EST

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Here's Johnny

Democrats need to learn how to attack a Pub (in a general election)

1. Take the stick away from them and beat them with it.

McCain wants to be the "war" president! and Obama is unpatriotic. OK

Is he calling for a military draft? (so we have enough troops to fight) Is he calling for the mobilization of our industry towards War (so the troops will have the necessary equipment). Is he willing to demand that we end our dependence on foreign oil within 15 years? Is he even willing to acknowledge that our oil consumption is a national secuirty issue.

The truth is this has not been a "war" from the start. What about Afganistan? Iran, Pakistan, N. Korea?

How are you (Mr. McCain) "supporti ng" our troops in Afganistan? Where is their surge?

WHO IS PAYING FOR ALL THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All the while pointing out the the pubs were warned that the intelligence was wrong, they were warned that they needed more troops, they allowed the disbanding of the Iraq army, they allowed those weapons caches to be left unguarded, etc. etc. etc. and all Republican Politicians can seem to do is wear flag pins and magnetic ribbons for their SUVs. At least Mitt Romneys kids served our nation trying to get their dad elected President.


If Mr. McCain wishes to have his hundred years war or follow Osama Bin (in the Federal Protection Program) Laden into hell. He needs to tell the American people the cost in price and lives.

Up the ante, ask McCain, as a vietnam vet, is it right to leave our men in a foreign land without enough men, without enough resources and without any hope?

Are you willing to raise taxes to support our troops?

Every day should be a new question about what has happened and what will happen in the war.

AND THROW AFGANISTAN IN HIS FACE AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY


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 Display:
Time to attack | 30 comments (30 topical, 0 hidden)
I agree with you (none / 0)
And I share some of the concerns expressed around here that Obama might be too genteel to apply the proper beatings, I really do.  I still back him as the best we've got.

Let's show them Dems aren't pussies: roll up those sleeves and let there be PAIN!

"If you're not pumped up, then get the hell out, 'cause you don't belong here." -- Cenk Uygur

by Spinny on 02/28/2008 09:27:51 AM EST

Good strategy but (none / 0)
We should wait till McCain gets the nomination.  Then the Republicans are committed.  Then unleash the Dogs of war.  But watching McCain lately he is busy painting himself as a liar.  Sometimes the best policy with Republicans is to stand back and let them hang themselves.   We just need to keep pointing out their lies.

by jdenham on 02/28/2008 09:58:46 AM EST

We meet at dawn. You choose the field. (none / 0)
You guys really want to make this election about fighting al Qaeda?

OK. Just remember that you chose the terrain and the battlefield.

Republicans want permanent military bases throughout the Middle East theatre: Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, Turkey. We want to close bases in Europe and Asia, and redeploy assets and personnel to the Middle East. We want to support our allies as they fight Islamic Jihadists and establish freedom and democracy.

Now it's your turn. What are Democrats willing to do to fight al Qaeda and other jihadists? I'm hearing a lot of Democrat talk about withdrawal and redeployment to Okinawa. Al Qaeda is not in Okinawa. Al Qaeda is in Iraq Mr Obama!

by KenTX on 02/28/2008 10:59:36 AM EST

Fighting Al Qaeda is not the answer (none / 0)
Convincing them they no longer want to fight us is.

There's a huge difference.

"If you're not pumped up, then get the hell out, 'cause you don't belong here." -- Cenk Uygur

by Spinny on 02/28/2008 11:12:50 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Democrat-Think (none / 0)
"Fighting al Qaeda is not the answer. Convincing them they no longer want to fight us is."

I hope that Barack Obama says these exact words. We will try to force him into it.

by KenTX on 02/28/2008 11:35:18 AM EST

[ Parent ]
John Wayne is dead (none / 0)
And his movies were pretty crappy.  

"If you're not pumped up, then get the hell out, 'cause you don't belong here." -- Cenk Uygur

by Spinny on 02/28/2008 11:38:27 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Rethuglican-Think (none / 1)
Staying in Iraq is the answer

I hope that John McCain says these exact words.We will try to force him into it.

by Tbwa on 02/28/2008 01:46:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You know... (none / 0)
This business of spoofing people's logon id was funny and clever the first time, but it's getting kind of old now.  Let it go.

by bfaul on 02/28/2008 04:11:56 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Hi pal (none / 0)
As you know I am no dove and in my view we are fighting their (al Qaeda's) war on their terms. al Qaeda is in Iraq, and Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. When do we start bombing them oh and let's not forget Iran.

We need William Shatner (priceline) to tell the Saudis that we intend to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil. I wonder how many weeks until Bin Ladens head rolls up on the White House steps?

Bases? are we trying to change the subject?

talk to ya later

by LORD FOUL on 02/28/2008 02:30:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
A nicely Solomaic solution (none / 0)
I read an interesting related idea some time ago.

Osama wants us out of the lands he considers sacred; that's his beef and why he orchestrated 9/11.  Fine.  We agree to pull out of every area he objects to, in exchange for his being delivered to us for justice.  Now it's up to him:  how badly does he want it?  How long before his own people beg the question?

Maybe not practical, but nice to ponder.

"If you're not pumped up, then get the hell out, 'cause you don't belong here." -- Cenk Uygur

by Spinny on 02/28/2008 02:37:10 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I agree w/you 100% (none / 0)
But I really couldn't help from complimenting a  Chronicles of Thomas Covenant reference
10sejed
Btw, KenTX you remain, as always, a Goddamn Idiot.

by 10sejed on 02/28/2008 05:45:09 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Cue the martial music... (none / 0)

"Republicans want permanent military bases throughout the Middle East theatre: Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, Turkey. We want to close bases in Europe and Asia, and redeploy assets and personnel to the Middle East. We want to support our allies as they fight Islamic Jihadists and establish freedom and democracy."

Just whatever you do, don't ask them to pay for any of this.   That's what credit cards are for, right? (oh, and don't draft their kids either)

by bfaul on 02/28/2008 04:06:04 PM EST

[ Parent ]
to know is to love (none / 0)
Kentx likes to play the game. He would rather debate military bases and "supporting freedom" than debate Iraq and afganistan. Talk about choosing your battlefield.
Discussing what has happened and WHO is responsible is not a winning republican arguement.

Note to Ken: Those bases will be of little or no strategic value when we develope a new energy source

by LORD FOUL on 02/28/2008 04:29:06 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Now we're on MY battlefield. (none / 0)
"Note to Ken: Those bases will be of little or no strategic value when we develope a new energy source."

Note to Lord Foul: I hold advanced degrees in Chemical Engineering and a strong background in petroleum. Nothing burns cheaper than dinosaur juice.

A more likely scenario is when we drill 5 miles down in the Gulf of Mexico and hit a mega-field, larger than the entire Middle East.

by KenTX on 02/28/2008 08:58:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
OIL (none / 0)
Cheaper huh, for how long? besides who killed the electric car? They used to say it was impossible to land on the moon. We can do it, we must do it! and you being a patriotinc American know it must happen

by LORD FOUL on 03/01/2008 09:19:29 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Al Qaeda (none / 0)

is not in Iraq. Al Qaeda is in Pakistan.

So says the 911 report and US intelligence anyway.

AQI is in Iraq. AQI is just a convenient name for Iraqis who want US troops out of Iraq. Which is most Iraqis.

Oh yea, MRFred already kicked your ass on this one Ken. Give it up. 

by z1p101 on 02/28/2008 07:46:20 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Awww Zippy, (none / 0)
You know how I hate giving you another beat down, especially after you just returned from a two day hiatus, but sometimes it’s a necessity.

Zippy: “Al Qaeda is not in Iraq. Al Qaeda is in Pakistan. AQI is in Iraq. AQI is just a convenient name for Iraqis who want US troops out of Iraq. Which is most Iraqis.”

You (and Fred) should try to keep more up to date with current events. For starters, I suggest you read the Washington Post. For instance, here’s an article that appeared four weeks ago. As hard as you might try to google on the subject, you will not find a more current assessment of the situation on the ground.

“The Army's Combating Terrorism Center at West Point, the analyzed and made public last month documents that have led the U.S. military in Iraq to reassess some of its earlier assumptions about the insurgent group and those who carry out most of the suicide missions that are its signature method of attack.

[They studied] individual records of 606 foreign fighters who entered Iraq between August 2006 and August 2007. The cache of documents was discovered last fall by U.S. forces in the northern Iraqi town of Sinjar.
Based on the Sinjar records, U.S. military officials in Iraq said they now think that nine out of 10 suicide bombers have been foreigners, compared with earlier estimates of 75 percent. Similarly, they assess that 90 percent of foreign fighters entering Iraq during the one-year period ending in August came via Syria, a greater proportion than previously believed.”

I don’t care what name you want to give to “Al Qaeda in Iraq”, but it appears that the terrorists who are blowing people up are foreign jihadists. Didja get that? They're not from Iraq. This makes you look kinda stupid, once again. And if Fred was running his mouth on the subject, then it makes him look stupid as well.

Would you like for me to post a bunch of quotes and youtube videos of Democrat lawmakers describing how well the surge is working, because we are destroying Al Qaeda in Iraq? I can do that for you.

by KenTX on 02/28/2008 09:30:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Oh and one more thing. (none / 0)
Don't try dragging in a bunch of goddam shit from two years ago. That's what you always do whenenver I kick your ass around the block. I just presented you with a current, up-to-date assessment.

The surge beat the hell out of Al Qaeda, and West Point just released the intelligence on who has been responsible for all of the mayhem.

In fact, things are going so well in Iraq that Senate Republicans just trick-fucked the stupid ass Senate Democrats into debating the war on the floor of the Senate.

by KenTX on 02/28/2008 09:40:08 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Ken (none / 0)

you just bitched slapped yourself again and I will quote you directly.

"[They studied] individual records of 606 foreign fighters who entered Iraq between August 2006 and August 2007."

606 foreign fighters? We are spending 18 billion a month to catch 606 foreign fighters who would have not been there in the first place if we did not invade Iraq? 

Meanwhile, the real al Qaeda has re built their organization (a lot more than 606) on the Pakistan/Afghanistan boarder. 

Do you enjoy being abused this bad on a daily basis? 

 

by z1p101 on 02/29/2008 07:32:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
good subject, keep it going! (none / 0)
Sinjar is merely one of many, many AQI outposts that were set up for induction and processing of foreign fighters. The interesting point is that 90% of AQI suicide bombers are not from Iraq. This fact proves your assertion wrong.

by KenTX on 02/29/2008 09:07:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]
My assertion? (none / 0)

You are the one who insists that we are killing or capturing 1500 al Qaeda members a month. Are they all blowing them selves up?

How many suicide bombers are there a month?

Keep trying to sell this one Ken because no one is buying it. 

by z1p101 on 02/29/2008 09:28:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Aww Ken (none / 0)

Lets hear it. I kept the conversation going.

Tell us all about these 606 foreign fighters. 

by z1p101 on 03/01/2008 01:15:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
lunch time (none / 0)
I'm working at the ranch this weekend, clearing Brush like W. Its lunchtime, and I'm relaxing on the porch, overlooking the lake. Kicking back with my bb, I see your invitation to keep this topic going. But in reviewing the exchange, I'd say you are squarely defeated. I think that explains your spate of angry posts. As I lean back in my rocker, I laugh with satisfaction. I am content.

by KenTX on 03/01/2008 01:56:40 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Defeated? (none / 0)

Says who? You come up with 606 foreign fighters (about what US intelligence has been estimating for a long time when they do a Iraqi vs foreigner comparison in their prisons).

Oh yea, on the ranch, be nice to the sheep when you put on the high boots. 

by z1p101 on 03/01/2008 03:51:48 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Oh and one more thing. (none / 0)

Get your head out of Limbaugh's ass. Americans want a solution to Iraq and they are more than willing to vote for anyone who has an answer that is better than "100 more years".

Who is getting trick fucked? 

by z1p101 on 02/29/2008 07:52:27 PM EST

[ Parent ]
evade, evade, evade (none / 0)

You of course evade the main point that none of these assholes were there before we went in and turned the place into a lawless hellhole.  Now you think it's a great victory that after 5 years and $1 trillion the place is not as much of a hellhole as it was before.  You think it's no problem for us to keep a force of 140,000 troops and God knows how many contractors over there for billions of dollars every month for the next 50 years.  The reason it's not a problem for you is that you don't have to go, and you haven't had to pay.  But you will pay.  Mark my words.  Whatever they spend we're on the hook for.

As the economy continues to melt down, you're going to find the mood of people towards your heroes will get really, really ugly.  You'll see what I mean in a few months, just be patient. 

by bfaul on 02/29/2008 10:13:45 AM EST

[ Parent ]
why don't you offer some suggestions (none / 0)
"As the economy continues to melt down, you're going to find the mood of people towards your heroes will get really, really ugly.  You'll see what I mean in a few months, just be patient."

People like you continue to pray for an economic meltdown. It's understandable, because without it, you have absolutely nothing on which to justify your political beliefs.

The U.S. economy has moved in cycles forever. We've enjoyed a rip roaring economy for more than four years. Are we now moving into a cyclical recession? I'm not so sure, but we might be entering a soft landing with modest GDP for the next 3-4 quarters, followed by another recovery. 

One thing is for certain. You are absolutely the last guy on the planet I would go to for an economic forecast.

So is Iraq a roach motel for Islamic jihadists throughout the Middle East? The evidence appears to support that position. The evidence also indicates that we are killing Islamic jihadists in Iraq by the tens of thousands.

So what good ideas are you offering? Leave Iraq? Leave Afghanistan? Leave the Middle East?

by KenTX on 02/29/2008 10:58:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]
As opposed to neocon geniuses? (none / 0)

"People like you continue to pray for an economic meltdown."

This is a stupid thing to say.  I stand to lose considerable money in a meltdown, why would I "pray" for it?  I'm not praying, I'm preparing.  If I'm wrong I'll probably make a little less money, but if I'm right I'll save a lot.

For once in your life pull your head out of the Republican pigtrough and take a look at what's going on.  This is no "cyclical recession".  The rising cost of fuel is "cyclical"?  This "slowdown" is based on some very real problems, not on speculation like with the tech bubble.  Much of the continued growth of the last two decades is based on two things, low energy costs and consumer spending of borrowed money.  The bill is coming due.  I've been apprehensive about this for several years.   I've watched people I know buy big homes and very expensive gas guzzling cars and thought to myself, wow, these guys don't make any more than I do and they're not afraid to get into that kind of debt, surely this can all fall apart on them, what do they know that I don't?  The answer as it turns out: nothing.  I've watched more than one of them file for bankruptcy ahead of the changes in bankruptcy laws.  I've gone over and helped them try to get their houses in shape to sell.  Our government is exhibiting exactly the same behavior as these consumers and the people controlling it all think this is just swell.  And you wonder why I think we're fucked? 

In the run up to the war in Iraq I watched the Bush machine beat the drums for war with a mixture of feelings.  I hadn't considered Saddam a realistic threat to the US since the Gulf War, I considered him more of an aggravation and a nuisance.  I thought he was deliberately obscure about his weapons status because he was scared of Iran.  But I also told myself they have information that I don't have, surely they simply MUST know many things that I can't know about the weapons he possesses.  Colin Powell lent his credibility to their arguments and he really swayed me (the prick).  

So with all the vast information gathering organizations at their disposal how much more did they know about Saddam's weapons than I did?  Nothing.  As incredible as that statement seems to me even today my guess was more accurate than theirs.  He had in fact destroyed his WMDs, and in the recent 60 minutes episode where they interviewed Saddam's interrogator I found out I had been right about his motivations for keeping his mouth shut about it too.  I wish I had been blogging back in those days so I could point back to it, but I wasn't and I can't and I don't care, I know what I thought and that's what counts.

"One thing is for certain. You are absolutely the last guy on the planet I would go to for an economic forecast."

And I give a shit?  Surely I've made it clear what I think about your opinions.  I'll keep my own counsel from here on out, that I promise you.

I don't have time to address your last three questions right now but the short answer is that the options left to us are becoming fewer and fewer and none of them will probably change anything now.  Another 3 years of this and the "Republican" and "Democratic" options will be exactly the same - "declare victory" and go home.  What a meaningless waste of life and money.

by bfaul on 02/29/2008 01:17:44 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Whack the mole (none / 0)
What about Afganistan, Pakistan?

Will you support a draft? will you support rationing? will you support raising taxes? Will you support alternative energy?

Fighting the war your way is like sticking fingers into a leaking dam.

I know you don't believe this but this war is not preventing them from striking here

We can't keep drugs out or illegal aliens what makes you think that al qaeda can't just walk across our border?

What should worry all of us is why they haven't hit us again (and the war isn't it). We all, Pubs and Dems alike, have been betrayed

by LORD FOUL on 03/01/2008 09:37:55 AM EST

[ Parent ]
A-friggin'-men (none / 0)
"Fighting the war your way is like sticking fingers into a leaking dam."

Truth in words.  The current strategy creates more terrorists daily than we manage to kill.  That means we're losing.  Do they have a better plan to replace the losing one?  Of course not, they just declare "mission accomplished" and then try to browbeat everyone into believing them.

"I know you don't believe this but this war is not preventing them from striking here"

Another gem.  The actions since 9/11 have done NOTHING to make us safer.  Nothing.  The only reason there hasn't been a "9/12" yet is because they're not ready to strike again yet.  They are patient.  What we have accomplished, however, is to strengthen their resolve to strike again, so basically the Repubs have done everything in their power to cause another attack.  It'll be on their heads when it comes.

When "Al Quaeda in Iraq" meets it's probably with a portrait of Shrub on the wall in honor of their revered founder.  McCain is working hard to get his portrait up there, too.

"If you're not pumped up, then get the hell out, 'cause you don't belong here." -- Cenk Uygur

by Spinny on 03/01/2008 11:32:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Time to attack | 30 comments (30 topical, 0 hidden)
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